Sergeant Wilson Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 Even with the advantage of surprise, I'm not sure I fancy going into battle on a motorised kite. My conspiracy theory is, there was no failure by intelligence service. They let them do it so they can pulverise Hamas and anyone else who happens to get in the way. Not that they need an excuse usually. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 3 hours ago, TxRover said: Jimmy Carter … on his way out. Ha ha good one. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Golden God Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 Going to be some amount of “factualL takes on this by people who have absolutely no clue what’s going on but feel like they need to butt in cause of the team they support. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotiaNostra Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 20 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Even with the advantage of surprise, I'm not sure I fancy going into battle on a motorised kite. My conspiracy theory is, there was no failure by intelligence service. They let them do it so they can pulverise Hamas and anyone else who happens to get in the way. Not that they need an excuse usually. Its a conspiracy theory but has just enough to make it belivable, hamas always feck it up for Palestine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 USA "rock solid" support to Israel 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 The number of dead and hostages will continue to rise - current its estimated that 52 Israelis have been taken to Gaza as hostages. Reports are 100 killed in Israel with Palestinian officials saying 198 have been killed in the strikes carried out by the Israeli Air force since the attacks began. You have to assume these numbers are underestimates. I don’t think I’ve ever seen such savage violence in a conflict since the war on ISIS. There are videos of Hamas men shooting children in a bomb shelter dead, naked bodies of Israeli women dragged through the street. Even in the Israel-Palestine conflict it seems an escalation. When Russian troops massacred Ukrainians in Bucha or other towns they tried to hide it and denied it, Hamas are releasing videos of what they are doing, they are proud of this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 When those in power wage war, it's the ordinary people who die. Awful situation - and it will only get worse before it's over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 Rumours of Iranian Special Forces in country, Hezbollah opening a northern front and that some high profile/value IDF hostages have been taken. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefybake Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ScotiaNostra said: Its a conspiracy theory but has just enough to make it belivable, hamas always feck it up for Palestine As I recall, Hamas were originally democratically elected, as the majority of Palestinians viewed the then ruling PLA as corrupt, and acting only for themselves. Israel and the 'international community' denounced the election result, and refused to engage with the democratic choice in any way. As for the 'international community', I recall that around then their chosen Peace Envoy for the Middle East was one Tony Blair. The sickest of sick jokes in terms of any kind of even handed approach to peace making. For me, Israel is a country that is rotting from within, due to its behaviour. Edited October 7, 2023 by beefybake 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Ferguson's Hat Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 There's some undeniable animosity in the region. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomintroll Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 As usual, it will be innocent people on both sides who will suffer because of this neverending shite 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 11 hours ago, ICTChris said: massive salvo Oi, you leave me out of this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 25 minutes ago, Barry Ferguson's Hat said: There's some undeniable animosity in the region. Yeah, hopefully they can just have a quick chat and agree to disagree and that'll be the end of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 At least the Celtic supporters have made a banner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 21 minutes ago, Ziggy Sobotka said: Rumours of Iranian Special Forces in country, Hezbollah opening a northern front and that some high profile/value IDF hostages have been taken. There are conflicting reports that Hamas captured the head of the IDF Gaza division. The impact of these hostages could be to curtail Israel’s response. A unity government is being formed in Israel as a response to the attack. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotiaNostra Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 34 minutes ago, beefybake said: As I recall, Hamas were originally democratically elected, as the majority of Palestinians viewed the then ruling PLA as corrupt, and acting only for themselves. Israel and the 'international community' denounced the election result, and refused to engage with the democratic choice in any way. As for the 'international community', I recall that around then their chosen Peace Envoy for the Middle East was one Tony Blair. The sickest of sick jokes in terms of any kind of even handed approach to peace making. For me, Israel is a country that is rotting from within, due to its behaviour. No argument there but Hamas treat their own people like shite, women especially. Even if Palestine happened tomorrow, under Hamas women and anyone with different views LGBT for example wont be free. Thats on top of the fact that whenever a 2 state solution is closer than normal either Hamas or right wing israelis feck it up. Palestinians deserve far better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 30 minutes ago, Moomintroll said: As usual, it will be innocent people on both sides who will suffer because of this neverending shite Innocent people on both sides are suffering because of the Ukraine-Russia conflict (as opposed to perpetrators of the conflict like Putin - who really are not), yet for some reason it has been viewed as appropriate to punch the air in celebration at the 'successes' of that war. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said: No argument there but Hamas treat their own people like shite, women especially. Even if Palestine happened tomorrow, under Hamas women and anyone with different views LGBT for example wont be free. Thats on top of the fact that whenever a 2 state solution is closer than normal either Hamas or right wing israelis feck it up. Palestinians deserve far better. Hamas is a highly objectionable organisation for many reasons, but applying a values system that is really not accepted by the population Hamas claims to represent is not solid grounds to criticise them. It's really not the job of the international community to assert equality of every individual in every single state - there are enough, much bigger problems that we are failing to deal with. Hamas is to a significant degree a militant response to the state of siege that has been imposed on Gaza. It has been a reinforcing cycle for nearly 20 years - between crackdowns against militant threats to the state of Israel (evidently real enough) and the harms those crackdowns cause driving Palestinians of Gaza towards Hamas militancy. Throw in the mutually exclusive claims to territory and it looks impossible to solve peacefully. We should still try every possible route to do so but ultimately brute force is likely to impose a settlement. Edited October 7, 2023 by vikingTON 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotiaNostra Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 Just now, virginton said: Hamas is a highly objectionable organisation for many reasons but applying a values system that is really not accepted by the population Hamas claims to represent is not solid grounds to criticise them. It's really not the job of the international community to assert equality in every single state - there are enough, much bigger problems that we are failing to deal with. Hamas is to a significant degree a militant response to the state of siege that has been imposed on Gaza. It has been a reinforcing cycle for nearly 20 years between crackdowns against militant threats to the state of Israel (evidently real enough) and the harms those crackdowns cause driving the Palestinians of Gaza towards Hamas militant movement. Throw in the mutually exclusive claims to territory and it's impossible to solve peacefully. We should still try to do so but ultimately brute force is likely to impose a settlement. again no argument there but hamas wont be involved or be a part of any solution, they wont speed it up 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 6 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said: again no argument there but hamas wont be involved or be a part of any solution, they wont speed it up But from the Palestinian (esp. Gaza) perspective, the alternative set forward by Fatah has reached an obvious dead end - caused in part by the intransigence of Israel and the establishment of colonial settlements. There is no logical reason for those people to abandon Hamas for a more peaceful path because no meaningful incentives have or will likely ever be provided to do so. That's why it's an insoluble issue and why Hamas are as much the product of that reality as the makers of it. That doesn't absolve them of individual or collective responsibility but it does explain why they remain a relevant and powerful force. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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