welshbairn Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Donathan said: I think a one state solution is not feasible here. Imagine the scenes. Roughly 8 million Jews and 6 million Muslims, who absolutely hate and despise each other. Would be civil war by lunchtime on the first day. Any feasibility of a 2 state solution was wrecked years ago and getting more obviously so every day. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/the-most-successful-land-grab-strategy-since-1967-as-settlers-push-bedouins-off-west-bank-territory Edited October 21, 2023 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 Sir Keir must apologise and resign. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) Very weird article. The telegraph is saying there has been a terrorist attack in the UK, carried out by a Palestinian Islamist, but the media are not allowed to report on the details. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/20/terrorist-attack-in-uk-linked-to-gaza/ Edited October 21, 2023 by Donathan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 23 minutes ago, Fullerene said: That attitude led to the partition of India into a supposedly Muslim bit (or two bits) and a supposedly not so Muslim bit. Nowadays these bits are fierce rivals and have nuclear weapons pointed at each other. The idea that nations should be defined purely on religious grounds is a bad one. I can also think of another place much closer to Scotland. So your choice is you either have two countries at war with each other, or you have one country in a civil war. Ultimately when two populaces have such a bitter hatred of one another then it’s almost impossible to have them peacefully co-exist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 22 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Any feasibility of a 2 state solution was wrecked years ago and getting more obviously so every day. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/the-most-successful-land-grab-strategy-since-1967-as-settlers-push-bedouins-off-west-bank-territory I’m not sure there is any “feasible” solution here. As I mentioned elsewhere it’s surely impossible to have two populations that both want one another dead peacefully co-exist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 You could undoubtedly take steps that will start to mend bridges between the two sides. A solution, be it two-state or one (secular) state, is a long way off, but not impossible. You could start by stopping the illegal settlements in the West Bank, and stopping the occupation of Gaza. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: Interlopers? Invaders, intruders, encroachers, trespassers? Expats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 30 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said: Sir Keir must apologise and resign. Those are pink octopodes., clearly meant to reference the evil tendrils of The Gay Agenda worming its way through our society and controlling our everyday lives. Typical that woke Marxist Starmer would want to subconsciously normalise the control wielded by The Gay Mafia! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: You could undoubtedly take steps that will start to mend bridges between the two sides. A solution, be it two-state or one (secular) state, is a long way off, but not impossible. You could start by stopping the illegal settlements in the West Bank, and stopping the occupation of Gaza. Demographics will put an end to the Israeli Paelstine conflict eventually. If it isn't happening already, perhaps the population of Israel (and Palestine) will become more atheist like much of the West. Opposition or support of Israel's claim to the land which they occupy might start to get flimsy when folk think the book in which that claim is in is no more than a fairy story. You can see this happen in NI where the opinions on Unionism v Nationalism are beginning to become less about Protestants v Catholics. Edited October 21, 2023 by sparky88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said: I'm a nazi and I didn't know about the blue octopus thing. Cut Greta some slack. Uninformed nazis >>> informed nazis >>> uniformed nazis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 27 minutes ago, Donathan said: I’m not sure there is any “feasible” solution here. As I mentioned elsewhere it’s surely impossible to have two populations that both want one another dead peacefully co-exist. About 2 million Arabs live inside Israel, 21%. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: About 2 million Arabs live inside Israel, 21%. Is the strength of hatred between Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs as strong as the strength of hatred between Israeli Jews and Palestinian Muslims? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 21 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Uninformed nazis >>> informed nazis >>> uniformed nazis. It's all changed since I was in it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 13 minutes ago, Donathan said: Is the strength of hatred between Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs as strong as the strength of hatred between Israeli Jews and Palestinian Muslims? Seems to be for the current Finance Minister. Quote Smotrich was heckled by several Arab Knesset members and retorted: “I’m not speaking to you, anti-Zionists, terror supporters, enemies,” he said. “You’re here by mistake, it’s a mistake that Ben-Gurion didn’t finish the job and didn’t throw you out in 1948.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/smotrich-at-knesset-ben-gurion-should-have-finished-the-job-thrown-out-arabs/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JokerD Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: Seems to be for the current Finance Minister. https://www.timesofisrael.com/smotrich-at-knesset-ben-gurion-should-have-finished-the-job-thrown-out-arabs/ Some of the Israeli government ministers and officials sound absolutely insane and unhinged 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: Any feasibility of a 2 state solution was wrecked years ago and getting more obviously so every day. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/the-most-successful-land-grab-strategy-since-1967-as-settlers-push-bedouins-off-west-bank-territory I've been on a management course for the last 6 months and one of the people on it is a Palestinian/Bosnian woman. Tremendously smart, has a Masters in International Business from the Sorbonne (or something like that) and I've got to know her a little bit. Obviously we've all read about or watched stuff about the West Bank but it's the little details that get you. She described the settlers as like ink blots - spreading out and consuming space. They'll expand their farm just a little bit, but it'll now control a stream or an access point to a Palestinian farm. They'll demolish anything standing on the bit they've just claimed and Israeli soldiers wll guard them while they do it. Somebody asked her a somewhat puerile question about living in the West and the differences and she said she feels guilty taking a bath because such an egregious waste of water wouldn't be tolerated at home. Israel controls the water supply and it's only turned on once a week so the Palestinians fill tanks on the roof with water to last seven days (sometimes longer, if the 7 days land on a holiday, Israel justs leaves it switched off). Many farmers give up because their land has so many pieces bitten out of it that it becomes unsustainable and of course there's a settler on hand to offer them far less than it's worth, but in cold hard cash. Her family still live on the West Bank, her brother sold their farm and bought a shed to repair cars in. He's not allowed to visit her in the UK because the Foreign Office say he's a potential terrorist and they don't believe he would return if he was allowed into the UK. I haven't been able to contact her since this has started. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Joe Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said: I've been on a management course for the last 6 months and one of the people on it is a Palestinian/Bosnian woman. Tremendously smart, has a Masters in International Business from the Sorbonne (or something like that) and I've got to know her a little bit. Obviously we've all read about or watched stuff about the West Bank but it's the little details that get you. She described the settlers as like ink blots - spreading out and consuming space. They'll expand their farm just a little bit, but it'll now control a stream or an access point to a Palestinian farm. They'll demolish anything standing on the bit they've just claimed and Israeli soldiers wll guard them while they do it. Somebody asked her a somewhat puerile question about living in the West and the differences and she said she feels guilty taking a bath because such an egregious waste of water wouldn't be tolerated at home. Israel controls the water supply and it's only turned on once a week so the Palestinians fill tanks on the roof with water to last seven days (sometimes longer, if the 7 days land on a holiday, Israel justs leaves it switched off). Many farmers give up because their land has so many pieces bitten out of it that it becomes unsustainable and of course there's a settler on hand to offer them far less than it's worth, but in cold hard cash. Her family still live on the West Bank, her brother sold their farm and bought a shed to repair cars in. He's not allowed to visit her in the UK because the Foreign Office say he's a potential terrorist and they don't believe he would return if he was allowed into the UK. I haven't been able to contact her since this has started. Fucking hell! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Donathan said: So your choice is you either have two countries at war with each other, or you have one country in a civil war. Ultimately when two populaces have such a bitter hatred of one another then it’s almost impossible to have them peacefully co-exist. I am not an expert on the matter but I had the opinion that Bosnia or even Yugoslavia worked reasonably well until troublesome leaders made a determined effort to exaggerate all differences and demand ethnic purity wherever possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Fullerene said: I am not an expert on the matter but I had the opinion that Bosnia or even Yugoslavia worked reasonably well until troublesome leaders made a determined effort to exaggerate all differences and demand ethnic purity wherever possible. So you effectively have a 7-state solution there (if we include Kosovo as a recognised independent country). They don't particularly like each other and occasionally you get flare ups at international football matches, but guns aren't being fired on a daily basis. I'm not sure the strength of hatred is as strong there though. Serbs want Kosovo to be part of their country. They don't want all Kosovans dead. Edited October 21, 2023 by Donathan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 Just now, Donathan said: So you effectively have a 7-state solution there (if we include Kosovo as a recognised independent country). They don't particularly like each other and occasionally you get flare ups at international football matches, but guns aren't being fired on a daily basis. I'm not sure the strength of hatred is as strong there though. Could you draw us up a table. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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