Ewanandmoreagain Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 13 hours ago, Thane of Cawdor said: What does the endgame look like in this phase of the conflict? Hamas have committed an atrocity, and Israel has responded with an even more heinous atrocity. The only leverage that Hamas possesses is the captive Israelis, and these are to be freed. Israel has been utterly ruthless in the destruction of Gaza, even when their own citizens were endangered, so what happens when this is no longer the case? Since the Israeli objective is to eradicate Hamas, does this not mean resumption of normal service, i.e. the total destruction of the geographical entity of Gaza, and much of its population? Or do we assume that wiser counsels prevail and Biden (or a sentient advisor) tells Netanyahu to stop his Old Testament shit and begin to act like the responsible leader of a nation? Has Hamas / will Hamas have " achieved " anything " meaningful " ? I do not think so ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razamanaz Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 17 minutes ago, Ewanandmoreagain said: Has Hamas / will Hamas have " achieved " anything " meaningful " ? I do not think so ! They're stopped the deal with Israel and Saudi Arabia for the moment that Iran didnae like 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 22 minutes ago, Ewanandmoreagain said: Has Hamas / will Hamas have " achieved " anything " meaningful " ? I do not think so ! They've got World leaders actually talking about the road ahead, 2 state solution, justice for Palestinians, stopping illegal settlements etc. Nothing like a bit of ultra violence to shake off a stalemate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, razamanaz said: They're stopped the deal with Israel and Saudi Arabia for the moment that Iran didnae like Somebody will be pleased by that . I cannot imagine they are concerned by all the deaths . Edited November 25, 2023 by Ewanandmoreagain 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefybake Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 ' Administrative Detention ' https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2023/11/22/23972908/palestinian-prisoners-israel-administrative-detention 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 (edited) Israelis have apparently restricted aid supplies to Northern Gaza, and refused release of long term prisoners, as previously agreed, so Hamas have stalled the hostage/prisoner exchange. P.S. Israel also accused of flying drones over Southern Gaza, breaking the no fly agreement. Edited November 25, 2023 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 There was a lady on the radio saying most of the arrests of Palestinian youngsters occur close to Israeli " settlements " 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 Over 3000 Palestinians rounded up by Israeli troops in the West Bank since Oct 7th, Israeli troops currently surrounding 2 hospitals In Jenin, reportedly. Worth mentioning that Hamas have no administrative role in the West Bank. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 Some excerpts from New York Times yesterday (https://archive.ph/qiMAI). Compared with other conflicts: Comical understatement: A war on women and children: Nowhere is safe: Appealing to WW2 atrocities for justification: A society utterly ravaged: New York Times and other US media informing their public like this has been working. Public pressure, even if just in the form of polling results, will've been what pushed Biden to demand the current ceasefire. If this one lapses then another one will need called for. Eventually one will hold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 On 24/11/2023 at 08:14, Freedom Farter said: Al Jazeera are also very biased in their reporting and lean very heavily on the side of the Palestinians. In terms of the amounts of coverage given to each side, they're pretty much a mirror image of the BBC. In terms of the content, the BBC is imo worse. They're basically cheerleading the IDF and doing propaganda. Some journalists in individual interviews are challenging them but the editorial line is clearly "bomb terrorist good". Al Jazeera isn't cheerleading Hamas. Despicable 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 1 hour ago, coprolite said: Al Jazeera are also very biased in their reporting and lean very heavily on the side of the Palestinians. In terms of the amounts of coverage given to each side, they're pretty much a mirror image of the BBC. In terms of the content, the BBC is imo worse. They're basically cheerleading the IDF and doing propaganda. Some journalists in individual interviews are challenging them but the editorial line is clearly "bomb terrorist good". Al Jazeera isn't cheerleading Hamas. Despicable Sure, and that's an important point you make on Al Jazeera. They're certainly not an ideal neutral arbiter but unfortunately one doesn't exist. That means folk who can't get their views published by any outlets in pro-Israel nations end up with no choice other than going to Al Jazeera. Earlier in the thread I linked a letter signed by Ukrainians expressing their solidarity with Palestinians. Obviously that contradicts state policy in Ukraine as well as in UK, EU, USA, etc. so they could only get Al Jazeera to publish their letter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Waldo Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 A survey by the Gaza Palestinians showing some complexity of opinions. https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public Opinion Poll - Gaza War 2023 - Tables of Results.pdf Some selected results. Over 85% reject co-existence with Israel 75% support the October 7th assault/massacre/invasion 13.6% support a Hamas only run government 88% state Hamas military wing plays a positive role Over three quarters have a negative view of all Arab neighbours Over 70% expect 'Palestine' to win 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 (edited) Not surprising results given that 48% of Gazans report their homes completely or partially demolished after a few weeks of intensive bombing. A more graphic representation of the results: https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public Opinion Poll - Gaza War 2023.pdf Edited November 26, 2023 by welshbairn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 8 hours ago, Mr Waldo said: A survey by the Gaza Palestinians showing some complexity of opinions. https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public Opinion Poll - Gaza War 2023 - Tables of Results.pdf Some selected results. Over 85% reject co-existence with Israel 75% support the October 7th assault/massacre/invasion 13.6% support a Hamas only run government 88% state Hamas military wing plays a positive role Over three quarters have a negative view of all Arab neighbours Over 70% expect 'Palestine' to win Would you want to co-exist with a nation trying to level your entire country and wipe out the entire population? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 Have to say I've seen a hell of a lot more brutality from both sides during this war than picking up a few snacks from a petrol station. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 6 hours ago, welshbairn said: Have to say I've seen a hell of a lot more brutality from both sides during this war than picking up a few snacks from a petrol station. Was that Easter eggs at the end of one aisle? Let's get Christmas done FFS! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Here's a tearjerker that you'd hope would be going viral on US daytime tv. These Palestinian boys received life-saving surgery in the US. An Israeli airstrike killed them in their home 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Waldo Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 An article on how it looks like Israel has changed it's rules of engagement. Basically 'how many civilians is it OK to die as long as we get the target'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 19 minutes ago, Mr Waldo said: An article on how it looks like Israel has changed it's rules of engagement. Basically 'how many civilians is it OK to die as long as we get the target'. I know people think the US should be putting pressure on Israel to stop this, but it would be staggeringly hypocritical. I wonder what the official ratio of acceptable civilian to target kills is for the American military? They obviously have one; it's been decades since their politicians started talking about collateral damage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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