EdinburghPar1975

..and doing what? Staying in the league the next season....unless of course there was reconstruction which was ICTs aim all the time...nothing to do with Partick, Hearts or Stranraer as SG would have you believe.

So...ICT are confirming then that they wanted money paid out but no champions elected or relegation actioned. Essentially null and voiding a season but wanting the cash for positions, exactly the point that other clubs didn't want and we're then accused of bullying to stop it from happening. I've no idea what the ICT statement is actually looking to prove because from my reading it does nothing other than prove some points that were being made against SG.

Exactly....no matter the team if they want to find an issue they will so the main question is what are the clubs hoping to achieve if there is an inquiry? If there is an inquiry are they going to accept the outcome and also, if necessary, will the SPFL take any actions, remedial or otherwise that are raised?

If the SPFL were to say that they were open to an inquiry, (paid for by all clubs and QCs chosen by clubs for neutrality) but that it needed to happen after decisions on finishing leagues etc. were made I wonder how that would go down? Would this still be seen as bullying to get things agreed or a common sense approach to allow completion and agreement on this season but transparency on what's happened and comfort on process and governance going forward? I don't think any inquiry is going to help resolve this seasons problems and if people really are so intent to believe that the SPFL are such a corrupt, negligent and bullying organisation would ANY report make them see otherwise unless it fully backed up their claims? They could have done things and handled things better and had they had 4 or 5 months to agree and arrange more competently then I think the approach would be markedly different - it wasn't, they didn't , we are where we are...a bit of contrition and working together with all the teams would help this get resolved far quicker than any inquiry would in my opinion..

Which is why there is another can of worms. Brechin want in the LL because of two main things 1) they fancy their chances in winning the LL easier than the HL and 2) the costs of travel to all the games in the HL would be higher for them than games in the LL. I understand their reasoning but could you rely on all clubs agreeing on where the lines were and the rules for the end of season redrawing of those lines depending on who ends up in the leagues? Worth mentioning that the LL have called out that they were threatened with losing access to the SPFL cup comps if they didn't agree with Brechin being dropped into their league instead of the HL so there is already issues with trying to do this process... FWIW I believe that any reconstruction should include an automatic place into the league for the winners of the HL/LL play off (and i'm assuming WoSL going forward). Scottish football will never end up with a perfect solution as there too much self interest (understandably). The current set up is far from perfect but is probably about as good as we can get unless things drastically change.

Part of me feels that the SPFL should call the bluff off Rangers and their pals and say they'll agree to an independent inquiry but advise the clubs that to keep it independent they will all pay for it, jointly choose the authorities to complete the inquiry and that the cash to pay for said inquiry will come from their final payments....oh, and since the Championship, L1 and L2 have already been paid they'll need to pay back their share.....wonder how that would go down? Tomorrows meeting (is it still on??) will be very interesting. I reckon it'll either be all out mud-slinging, accusations and legal teams after it or it'll be 'resolved', the league called and planning for next season being started. I will be surprised if following the meeting Rangers aren't the last ones standing in opposition...

From the Rangers 'dossier' the bullying ICT are alleging took place was by Ross McArthur from Dunfermline in relation to splitting out monies post the season being called. If this is the bullying accusation it's nothing to do with Doncaster - the bullying involving Doncaster seems to be Donald Park bullying him …. Still waiting on Ross McArthur to provide an update on all this from a DAFC perspective but he may just decide that everything shouldn't be public until decisions are final and any discussions are kept in house....funny that. Also, still waiting on Dundee to back up ICT and Rangers claims given that they were named also...

For me this is the main thing from all the fall out. Clubs taking aim without any suggestions of what could be done better, it's easy to criticise but what is the realistic alternative? On Sportsound at the weekend the Hamilton chairman pretty much confirmed the league was dead weeks ago following the Scottish Govts announcement on no return to training till June 12th (approx.). He advised that after the end of May he'd have few players and as such he couldn't play games, the Stranraer chairman also said they'll have no players after the end of May. Given that was the case then the SPFL would be correct (?) in advising UEFA that it looked likely the seasons would need to be called...all the clubs would've known this and any posturing towards a continuation are worthless. The statements being made all the time are clubs trying to look after themselves, and whilst no-one can criticise a club for trying to do the best that they can for themselves there must be a 100 better ways to go about it than they actually have...

That's them....lovely bunch

From what I've read he said that Rangers have never mentioned bullying....

When is the meeting to agree this amazing expose? Was it moved from next Tuesday? Given my own mob are being implicated in some wrongdoing i'd quite like to hear something from them before then. Also from Dundee and ICT as they seem to be the real 'victims' here and then needed nice, caring Rangers to be the big brother we all need and raise the issue on their behalf. I've not heard the radio interview with the MD last night but I've seen enough feedback from it to know it was another spectacular own goal. Haven't they learned that you can't just run about accusing and finger pointing and expect no comeback. I understand that the SPFL must now be in a difficult position as any action against a member club is effectively taking action against themselves, but they cannot allow this just to slide...

Looking forward to the SPFL official statement, hopefully they can run something off today - shouldn't take them too long based on that dossier. Suppose it depends on how much they want to irritate the Rangers fans/ board really. The WhatsApp group messages could well be real but proves nothing, as for threats its the equivalent of when my P5 son comes home and says he did something because a P7 boy told him to, and if he didn't the P7 boy was going to tell my boys mates not to be his pal anymore....even my son see's through that one.

easily proven to be true or otherwise by those in the chat...

Given that ICT and Dundee have been named and 'shamed' as being bullied by the Scottish football powerhouse that is Dunfermline it would also be interesting to see how they feel about being called out in this document.

Ah, ok - I thought there was something else hidden away I had seen the messages and like you thought it was someone trying to give the full picture including how folks were looking at things should the resolution not get passed.

From a personal perspective i'd like to hear Ross McArthurs take on this. Given the Pars we're not going anywhere this season it would seem strange that he would 'threaten' others likely to be in the same league the following season with no actual benefit to the club.....

Seems a strange choice of words especially given that i'm sure that there would need to be a vote on how to change any prize monies allocated and as such no-one could use 'your no gettin' any cash' as a threat and why 'ND' wouldn't have taken that any further albeit there 'should' have been a response/ update if indeed they were reported. As the document says these were 'alleged' threats....they either were or weren't and all Rangers have done is try to throw others under the bus. Neither ICT or Dundee have said anything yet, it'd be good to hear their views on this and i'm sure they're supporters would as well..

Threatened is a strong word, any indication of what this 'threat' was?

Gers accuse chief executive Neil Doncaster of holding back key information (what information - back up the accusations) from clubs and being ‘the guiding hand’ (that's his role) who determined the league’s actions. They claim the SPFL could be liable for up to £10million in refunds to broadcasters by ending the season prematurely. (...and...Doncaster said before he wouldn't go into commercials - i'd imagine some 'deal' would be reached but even then...'claim'? Again, back up the claim) Gers say Doncaster suggested the SPFL handed over a sponsorship deal to Sky Sports which was significantly below the league’s market value. (Some claim...but if Sky were a strategic partner and offered up more money/ benefits elsewhere then this is an approach that other companies would also use) They question why SPFL lawyer Rod McKenzie issued four ‘cease and desist’ requests to Ibrox chairman Douglas Park - insisting he blocked their bid for a new resolution. (if a cease and desist was issued four times then there must have been an issue with what and how Rangers were doing things/ approaching matters - maybe Rangers conduct here should be looked into?) They query a letter sent to UEFA outlining how Scotland’s clubs wanted the season over before any vote had taken place. (Based on feedback from clubs they probably were aware thats how it was going) And they insist there are still unanswered questions on why Dundee performed a voting U-turn (what questions specifically. If they don't believe Dundee's stance on this then they should be clear on what they want answered) Still not seen anything about bullying and given that it was a key point in Rangers argument and also that they made personal claims of that type i'll be expecting Neil Doncaster to be looking at raising an action to opposite way...but then again, it may open another can off worms Based on what I've seen this isn't anything other than an attempt to appease their fans that they 'tried' to do the right thing and overthrow the corrupt, biased league and prevent Celtic being 'given' 9 in a row. Those that believe that's how things work will believe the document/ accusation regardless of any evidence/ proof - those that don't won't. I've said before but I would not be surprised if this was the groundwork for Rangers being able to blame all other parties for their failures should there be money issues in a month or two...

only if the rest of the league agree on that course of action via a vote, otherwise Rangers would need to go it themselves.

Sorry, to be fair I should have written that the 200+ pages in the dossier is a lot of accusations to make. In no way was I assuming that any of it would be actual proof or evidence, just that it's a lot of 'potential' issues to be read over (in theory anyway..but we know it'll be nowt!)

Must have some cracking pictures! In all seriousness 200+ pages is a lot of proof/ accusation of wrongdoing (if there is any)...or conversely they've just solved the toilet paper crisis from the start of the COVID impact...

I very much doubt there will be anything seriously damaging in this 'dossier'. It could've been handled better than it was, and maybe i'm easily convinced, but I don't think there is any malicious intent. The early finish to the league to allow the handing out of monies without additional risk of payments/ loans to clubs which might not be able to repay them seemed a sensible approach. I'm sure it was alluded by Doncaster that any loans/ payments to clubs are effectively from the clubs own prize money/ pot of cash - as such any default and the share of the cash falls. We may get some sort of football back this calendar year but it's highly unlikely to be with crowds, as such any clubs who rely on 'x' amount of fans at each home game may have serious problems if this was the case till the year end. Every club is going to be affected, either now or in a few months and it might well lead a few to the wall. If the league had chucked loans and cash to those clubs and they were to then fold then i'm pretty sure folks would be after them for not being smart enough with the reserves.... Of course, if clubs provided full and audited accounts to prove their solvency when asking for cash then it may be a different matter. Like everyone else i'll wait for the big reveal with baited breath and inevitably be disappointed with whatever happens.