KingfaetheSooth Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Beacuse 100 years of history would suddenly appear? Because Meadowbank Thistle would suddenly re-appear in the leagues?I don't get it. Do enlighten me. No because I have *SOME* symapthy for the hardcore livingston fans and would back them trying to resurrect their club ala Wimbledon, Clydebank, Gretna etc. Livi do have a history, albeit short, which they've managed to cram pretty much the same, and some occasions more, as the majority of 100 year + clubs.Doesn't make it right what happened to Meadowbank, but again it's part of they're history........ A very short history and NO wealthy fans who stood on the terraces as a boy and is prepared to save them. I think the people moaning about the fans in denial need a bit of perspective. Of course it's not nice to see your football club in pain and when you are ignorant, through no fault of your own, you'll always look to the most pleasant option even if it is unbelievable. These fans just want to support their club and because of their lack of "knowledge" about the situation, they will continue to do that. They shouldn't be the ones you are slagging off, you should be slagging off the board.I know Massone & co. are chancers now, but I did go along with a lot of their shite at the time when I wasn't really sure about what was happening. At that point, you can only piece together an idea about what is happening from newspapers and the club itself. Even if it is unrealistic, the positive news (e.g the debt will be cleared by June) will seem the most appealing. Once again, these guys shouldn't be the ones getting slagged off. They're simply being loyal to the club through ignorance and lack of knowledge. Plastic fans who cannot see what has been as plain as the nose on their face perhaps? Time to wake up guys. I think the financial uncertainty surrounding Livingston and Stranraer should really stoke the SFL into some action.It's time a harder stance was taken against clubs who can't meet the most basic requirement (ie: pay staff). Despite all of the carry-on regarding delayed payment of wages, Livi have still been allowed to sign players. This is not on. Clubs who can't pay wages on time should be subject to an immediate transfer embargo until they can prove they can pay the bills. Moving off topic slightly, I think it is time each club is subject to a salary cap relating to their turnover. Something similar is in place in the Blue Square Premier and is designed to make sure clubs don't leave themselves open to all sorts. I can't be the only one tired of hearing about clubs in serious financial difficulty. Can we not just go back to paying out what we can afford? At least our clubs' futures would be secured. There in no salary cap in the Conference. The salary cap you are thinking about is in League 2. Doesn't your entire history as Livingston give you a indicator as to what is likely to be the truth in all matters Almondvale? I think it's fairly clear to most that it is a club that has never ever played "with a straight bat". From admin at its inception from Meadowbank, to the "new model for Scottish football" years of chequebook success under Dominic Keane and his Celtic feeder club ambition..........all based on lies of course..........to once again taking up residence in the land of debt avoidance that is known as 'administration" once more after fleecing a not so smart lottery winner out of his cash.....to the "resurgence" under Pearse Flynn.........to the appontment of more managers than any other club over a comparable timeframe........to more stories of unpaid debt. Since Livingston came into being, has there been a single day when this club could be looked up to? This isn't a reflection on those locals who choose to follow the club. It is however a reflection on the route that the club has chosen to take year in and year out...........from admin to Kachoul.........live by the word of the law, not by the spirit in which it is intended. That interpretation might be thundering towards Livingston FC yet again. Should the club go into admin to avoid debts yet again, then surely that has to call into question their sporting right to be part of Scottish Football. Administration for a third time in around a dozen or so years has got to be completely unacceptable. It offers up a huge sporting advantage each time the slate is wiped clean.....yet down Almondvale way, that never seems to be enough. Excellent post as usual Duncan Freemason. Absolutely on the nail as ever. Edited January 30, 2009 by KingfaetheSooth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Not arguing with the bulk of your post because the running of the club over the years has been unacceptable but to set the record straight Livingston has been in administration once before - not twice. My apologies if I got that wrong, but i understood that the transfer from Meadowbank Thistle to Livingston FC involved Livingston not carrying forward any of Meadowbank's debt, thus allowing Livingston to start with a clean slate. This was the recurring theme with administration in 2004, and what may prove to be the case yet again. If it does, then in terms of a level playing field, it shouldn't be permitted on sporting grounds. I know LFC aren't the only club to have indulged in administration as a way of avoiding debts, but once surely has to be enough. particularly when clubs such as Falkirk, St Mirren and Raith Rovers have been in the same place but chose what would appear to be the honourable path of paying back every penny of what they owed. This of course, gave those who went into administration with the intent of avoiding debt a very significant advantage once the process drew to a close. As the system stands at the moment, it is still possible to "do a Livi" and spend money you don't have to get into the top flight. Once there, its still possible to go into admin and avoid paying the debt AND keep your top flight status........this is what Livingston did last time around. The points deduction brought in after Livingston's previous bout of admin makes it more difficult to stay up, but by no means is it impossible. At the very least, a second dance with administration (your club, my club, any club), should lead to a demotion to the third division as a minimum punishment. SALARY CAPS: Sounds very compelling, until you examine the small print.....particularly around "turnover". What it actually means, is that the big clubs stay big, and the wee clubs stay wee......forever. Precious little adventure or romance in that. The proposals are that if you have a zillionaire owner, he can't pump money to underpin salaries, as his input is NOT part of what is covered by "turnover". His altruistic benevolence would be limited to infrastructure......ground, training facilities etc etc. It is just a method to ensure that the big boys are never threatened. If there is a better way, then it isn't capping salaries, it's capping squad numbers. That way, the OF simply cannot sweep up every half decent kid going around. they can still pick and choose, but to bring a couple of guys in, then they have to let a couple of guys go......and there's a chance that they'd get it wrong, meaning a wee club pick up the odd gem or two. If every club were limited to 40 players, we might see a very different (and more competitive) league. LIVINGSTON MANAGERS: Now correct me if I am wrong, but Livingston FC (formed in 1995), have had exactly the same number of Managers as Glasgow Rangers (formed 1873). If it's true, then that is quite an amazing little fact. Edited January 30, 2009 by Guest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) My apologies if I got that wrong, but i understood that the transfer from Meadowbank Thistle to Livingston FC involved Livingston not carrying forward any of Meadowbank's debt, thus allowing Livingston to start with a clean slate. This was the recurring theme with administration in 2004, and what may prove to be the case yet again. If it does, then in terms of a level playing field, it shouldn't be permitted on sporting grounds. I know LFC aren't the only club to have indulged in administration as a way of avoiding debts, but once surely has to be enough. particularly when clubs such as Falkirk, St Mirren and Raith Rovers have been in the same place but chose what would appear to be the honourable path of paying back every penny of what they owed. This of course, gave those who went into administration with the intent of avoiding debt a very significant advantage once the process drew to a close. As the system stands at the moment, it is still possible to "do a Livi" and spend money you don't have to get into the top flight. Once there, its still possible to go into admin and avoid paying the debt AND keep your top flight status........this is what Livingston did last time around. The points deduction brought in after Livingston's previous bout of admin makes it more difficult to stay up, but by no means is it impossible. At the very least, a second dance with administration (your club, my club, any club), should lead to a demotion to the third division as a minimum punishment. Utter pish. On point one, Meadowbank didn't go into admin. The same group of directors led by Bill Hunter moved the club to Livingston. The club was always playing at home when Hibs or Hearts were at home so the 400 crowd was never going to increase to any great degree. That and being unable to fulfil fixtures due to cat shows, etc in the concourse. The name was changed to try and attract new supporters from Livingston. Myself and another 4,000 or so started going and I would have been happy if they had retained the name Meadowbank Thistle. The fact that a Scottish Football Team started playing locally was enough to entice me along with my family. Livingston FC played the first three month's home games at Meadowbank until Almondvale was completed. On point two, the club didn't go into admin to avoid paying it's debts. We were forced into admin by the Bank of Scotland with less of a debt than a lot of clubs at the time. Dunfermline should have gone the same way but Masterton still had friends at the bank. The fact is Dominic Keane lost his other businesses at the same time and the lottery winner lost his cash because he had signed personal guarantees. Going into admin isn't as easy as you would assume because if no CVA is agrred by the creditors the club could have been wound up and there is also a points penalty now. Edited January 30, 2009 by MCL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 MASSONE MUST GO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 MASSONE MUST GO The Sun 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 The Sun Massone MUST Go 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest StevenC Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Nothing to see here, nothing to see. Move along now children. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobite_Dundee Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Massone MUST Go He's not even here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobite_Dundee Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 And I'd reckon there's about a 50-50 chance of him getting mugged at whatever airport he flies into. Do you think he'll have one of those briefcases with the handcuff attachment thing? All very bizarre. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrowhillclyde Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 And I'd reckon there's about a 50-50 chance of him getting mugged at whatever airport he flies into. Do you think he'll have one of those briefcases with the handcuff attachment thing?All very bizarre. Surely there is a huge risk here with the briefcase - he seems a slippery character and the case may find its way elsewhere. I can just see him now, on a park bench in a secret agent style swap of breifcases - his loaded with cash and the other loaded with Mamma's special spaghetti. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde 78 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Players now paid as per new owners previous statement last month. Players now paid on the last day of the month, would appear a few players ran to the media too soon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi 293 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 No because I have *SOME* symapthy for the hardcore livingston fans and would back them trying to resurrect their club ala Wimbledon, Clydebank, Gretna etc. You couldn't have gave me that 10 posts ago, nah? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrowhillclyde Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 would appear a few players ran to the media too soon To be fair, they have been screwed about something silly and I'm sure the media went to them. They also said strike was an option - not that they were gonna do it, having considered what happened to Accies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi 293 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Players now paid as per new owners previous statement last month. Players now paid on the last day of the month, would appear a few players ran to the media too soon If that is the case then the players have been paid exactly when they were told last month, after the last wage debacle, that they would be, no? However, if their contracts say "the last Thursday" or whatever, then the wages are always going to be 'late.' If, if . . . http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/news_300109_2.php "Paid on time" being the last day of the month that the banks are open? Is it lack of clarity over whether it's the last Thursday or last 'day?' Do serous problems remain? Edited January 30, 2009 by Livi 293 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrowhillclyde Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Do serous problems remain? I think only some Livi fans would say no. There clearly is a problem if the Chairman is 'brining the money with him' from Italy, whatever that entails. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadio Delle Almondvale Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) I think only some Livi fans would say no. There clearly is a problem if the Chairman is 'brining the money with him' from Italy, whatever that entails. Honestly, do you really think he's bringing it in a big bag with a £ sign on it? I mean, really? Edited January 30, 2009 by Stadio Delle Almondvale 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I think only some Livi fans would say no. There clearly is a problem if the Chairman is 'brining the money with him' from Italy, whatever that entails. Pounds weak against the euro so makes out of the exchange rate. Wouldn't surprise me that it's so no money can be arrested in a bank account over here, so he leaves it till the last day to pay everyone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The ghost of Jim Morton Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Pounds weak against the euro so makes out of the exchange rate. Wouldn't surprise me that it's so no money can be arrested in a bank account over here, so he leaves it till the last day to pay everyone. If that's the case then they must have been paid cash today which means Massone must have had a briefcase full of candy.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Massone is on his way from Italy with the cash. Unfortunately, it's currently sliding towards the back end of a bus hanging off a cliff on a mountain road somewhere in the Alps. Don't worry though, he's full of good ideas this Massone chap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 You couldn't have gave me that 10 posts ago, nah? Nope. My mind is made up against Lvingston FC - will always hate them and never pay them a penny. Now Livingston 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 (delete as applicable) will have my full support when the fans take over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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