qos_75 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I would be more than surprised if they were relegated now. In fact, in the Scotsman, they reckon they would get away without even a points deduction. I can't see that though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Sensible Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 What difference does it make if its Livi or Airdrie in the First Division? Both are cheats! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raith_94 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I would be more than surprised if they were relegated now. In fact, in the Scotsman, they reckon they would get away without even a points deduction. I can't see that though. I have a horrible feeling the Scotsman may be right and that they're going to get nothing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napolean Dynamite Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 this whole saga just lurches horribly on. Just dock them points then get on with it. What will placing them in the 2nd division even achieve? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staggy4life Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I have a horrible feeling the Scotsman may be right and that they're going to get nothing. This is the same paper that said Raith signed John Stewart though. Sadly not all their stories are true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadio Delle Almondvale Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 It just gets stranger! We do deserve punishment as we have not been any kind of credit to football and certainly not a good example. However I really can't see the league voting for a relegation with 3 days to go before the start of the season. That said, I would rather a relegation than a points deduction. Not interested in 9 months of pointless football because that is what it would be. After todays performance I can certainly see some 1st Div chairmen looking for us to remain in their league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) It just gets stranger! We do deserve punishment as we have not been any kind of credit to football and certainly not a good example. However I really can't see the league voting for a relegation with 3 days to go before the start of the season. The season has started. You've already benefited from one decision during it Edited August 1, 2009 by Millfield Marksman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazarus814 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I can reveal that nobody yet knows.It all hinges on the vote on Wednesday, when the 28 other clubs with a vote (no Annan) decide what happens. Although seemingly Rankine and McDougal would attempt to take out an injunction against the SFL if there is any demotion...but that would be heard on the Thursday and would most likely fail, because: 1) The SFL rules permit them to do as they place (within the law...and demotion isn't illegal) 2) Livi agreed to abide by the rules of the SFL as part of their membership So from that we could be told on Thursday afternoon we have to travel to Ross County on the Saturday? What an absolute farce. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadio Delle Almondvale Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 So from that we could be told on Thursday afternoon we have to travel to Ross County on the Saturday? What an absolute farce. At least Arbroath would just need to turn either left or right at Stirling. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qos_75 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 It just gets stranger! We do deserve punishment as we have not been any kind of credit to football and certainly not a good example. However I really can't see the league voting for a relegation with 3 days to go before the start of the season. That said, I would rather a relegation than a points deduction. Not interested in 9 months of pointless football because that is what it would be. After todays performance I can certainly see some 1st Div chairmen looking for us to remain in their league. I see what what you're saying SDA, however if it was a 10 point deduction then that could easily be made up. There is no danger Livi will be relegated at three days notice in my opinion. The papers were also reporting a few weeks back the new guys would only take over if they continued in the 1st. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 The papers were also reporting a few weeks back the new guys would only take over if they continued in the 1st. That's rather a shite rescue plan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Okay. Having had a day or two to digest what happened on Thursday, I've changed my mind a bit on the question of ownership rules, maybe I don't have a problem with it. In fact, maybe their intention all along was to twist Massone's arm, to let him know they would change the rules if they really had to in order to get him out of Scottish football, and if so it worked an now there's no necessity to actually do so. Which I hope they don't because it would create an uncomfortable loophole. The real issue to emerge from Thursday's meeting was not so much about that but the assurances that the new regime gave to fulfill the fixtures. It now transpires they didn't give any such guarantee at all, but only guaranteed it on the specific condition that Livingston remained a first division side. Even if that were within Longmuir's power to grant - which it isn't - that's not an adequate assurance and should have ended the conversation there and then. There's already precedent there, last summer Gretna's administrator made it clear that the only rescue package on the table was subject to them being in the first division - that didn't deflect the SFL from taking the action they felt was necessary, and nor should it have. While the reason for (potential) demotion here is different, there's no reason for them to take a different line. It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that the only reason for treating this situation differently is because of the fixture issues and possible financial losses involved given the proximity to the new season. In which case not only are Livi being treated differently but they're being allowed to benefit fro their intransigence in prolonging the situation over the summer rather than dealing with it timeously. While I agree with most others that the SFL have to accept some degree of culpability for that intransigence, this nonetheless should not be allowed to happen. In fairness, I'm not particularly having a go at Longmuir. I think he misjudged it a bit this week but ultimately that doesn't matter, it'll be down to the full SGM to make the decision and they're the ones who should be judged on it. As to what happens from here, in spite of everything in their history I don't want to see Livingston knifed for the sake of it. If they really are going to live within their means as a responsible club from here then I'm happy for them to do so. Some scepticism remains on this point, and first up I'll be interested to see what happens to their full-time playing staff, starting first thing Monday morning - but providing this is genuine then fine, even though it means a CVA and another batch of unhappy creditors (which looks unavoidable now in any scenario). Like most of us I do think they need to be given a pretty stiff punishment, both to protect the integrity of the game and to serve sufficient notice of deterrent for malpractice: if I was thinking of self-interest then a points penalty would suit us better, but to be honest I think relegation, of one league, would be fairer: insofar as they cheated by spending beyond their means then the teams who suffered by it were their opponents last season while those debts were being racked up - principally Airdrie in the last relegation spot - rather than the likes of ourselves and Ayr who they'd be up against this season. That's just my opinion, I'm not bothered if other people and indeed the SFL themselves come to a different conclusion - just as long as that conclusion is made for the right reasons and in the fairest interests of the game rather than because of short-term concerns over the consequences. The new Livingston owners must not be allowed to railroad the SFL into softer penalties by holding them to ransom with threats of what the consequences will be if they don't get their own way, and I'd urge anyone who feels strongly about this as I do to email their clubs to make your feelings known on this point sometime before the Special General Meeting is held and the vote taken. I'm still pretty hopeful that the meeting will make a fair decision on this point, judging from public reactions there seems to be enough of a feeling prevalent to make sure they don't get too easy a hand, but we'll wait and see. I'll watch the next few days with interest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadio Delle Almondvale Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I see what what you're saying SDA, however if it was a 10 point deduction then that could easily be made up. There is no danger Livi will be relegated at three days notice in my opinion. The papers were also reporting a few weeks back the new guys would only take over if they continued in the 1st. My feeling is that these exceptionally well connected gentlemen allied with a few hopes that we won't pose much of a threat will see us safely in Division 1 with a token points reduction if any. I mean Jim Spence???? C'mon! The only articles I read purporting to be from the irate face of Scottish football were from Airdrie (predictable) and Albion Rovers. The former was guaranteed to happen, way to easy for the journalist there and Paul Martin was just noising us up ahead of todays game. If there really was a host of chairmen seething at the injustice, we'd have heard a little bit more by now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 That's rather a shite rescue plan I wonder what they'll do if Livi are relegated during their tenure this season... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Silverheels Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I wonder what they'll do if Livi are relegated during their tenure this season... Going by the custard-pie-in-the-balls antics of the SFL so far this Summer, they'd hold an EGM to change more rules I'd imagine... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalJedi Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 My feeling is that these exceptionally well connected gentlemen allied with a few hopes that we won't pose much of a threat will see us safely in Division 1 with a token points reduction if any.I mean Jim Spence???? C'mon! The only articles I read purporting to be from the irate face of Scottish football were from Airdrie (predictable) and Albion Rovers. The former was guaranteed to happen, way to easy for the journalist there and Paul Martin was just noising us up ahead of todays game. If there really was a host of chairmen seething at the injustice, we'd have heard a little bit more by now. If there are chairmen unhappy, I don't expect them to scream and shout about it, yet. I think it'll be cards close to the chest until Wednesday. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghPar1975 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Yoss, i think you've managed to say in one post what I have failed to do in about 20! Totally agree with what you say above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBank Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I posted the following on the other Livi thread about Gary Bolan, but havent really got an answer there. Could someone here help out - 'I'm confused. Have Livi not already got a Manager in Paul Hegarty? I thought Hegarty had been sent home for 'a breach of discipline' and is, as far an employment law is concerned, still in the post? OK Bolan could be appointed an interim manager but surely thats another wage that they cant afford AND they still have Murphy (?) on the payroll. And I thought that if you are in administration you cannot take on staff? Can anyone clarify?' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden til i die Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Surely this cant be true?? They either stay in the 1st or go to the 3rd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I mean Jim Spence???? C'mon! SFL meetings on Monday and Wednesday were mentioned subsequently (and not by Jim Spence). Maybe the decisions taken on Thursday have to be ratified. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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