Livingston - all the threads merged

[Freedom Farter]

1 hour ago, Livi said:

Why are the majority of Livi fans blinkered to these sorts of numbers around performance? I appreciate we all have our personal views and motivations but its just not healthy for any organisation to have a person like Martindale as rooted into the organisation making as many of the decisions he is making. Its this approach that will eventually kill Livingston FC. He seems to have surrounded himself with Livi people and for what ever reason they can see no bad and Martindale is held up as some cult hero   
 

Most other clubs the fans would get behind each other and call for change yet some at Livi still think Martindale is the man to ring the changes.

 

in terms of Rice alot of views from other clubs is he is good coach but not so good manager and was likely to have been punted from Alloa given recent form under him. 
 

Livingston needs some freshness not more of the same just in different positions.

Every comment in the last two pages has criticised Martindale. There are no blinkers.

Folk can click on your profile and see that your posts going back years are nearly all railing against Martindale. You're someone with a personal grudge, possibly not even a Livi fan.

[Livi]

5 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

Every comment in the last two pages has criticised Martindale. There are no blinkers.

Folk can click on your profile and see that your posts going back years are nearly all railing against Martindale. You're someone with a personal grudge, possibly not even a Livi fan.

I just have a problem the way the club is being run / functioning - hardly a crime of the century. 
 

New owners - really

Court cases - Hogarth, Rankine, Summers

losses - over £1.2m in last few years (after covid - please dont blame Covid) Yet more money than ever is coming into the club.

Rumours starting to emerge that some players don't want to play for the manager

 

What i would say is brilliant effort on the kids Christmas party yesterday - fantastic effort by all - fan engagement is critical at all levels

 

[Roger the cabin boy]

1 hour ago, Freedom Farter said:

Every comment in the last two pages has criticised Martindale. There are no blinkers.

Folk can click on your profile and see that your posts going back years are nearly all railing against Martindale. You're someone with a personal grudge, possibly not even a Livi fan.

If he has a problem with him so what? At this point does it even matter? Hardly unorthodox to criticise the manager now, he’s not the only one (not including myself) on the current  livi forums to voice negative opinions … I get where you’re coming from but it’s not really relevant 

[The Wrong Car]

There's pretty much three groups at the moment across Livi fans

The first group is essentially happy clappers who'll just repeat "Trust the Process" to any criticism of the players and staff

The second group focus mainly on Martindale, and generally don't seem to like him at the club (which is a fair, personal option) However they tend to disappear when form is good, and then come back with nonsense claims like he lost the dressing room 2 years ago etc. They also can't seem to put the blame on the players themselves, and view any poor moments as poor coaching rather than players being fairly shite on a game by game basis. It's entirely fair to continually question the motivations of those in charge (this is a Livingston board), however they seem to take any sort of response as them being silenced, and generally come across a bit sanctimonious (particularly on the FB forum) 

The third group seems to be most Livi fans, who see this season as a culmination of poor tactics and squad planning (which is on Martindale) and poor player choices impacting games (Montano vs Dundee etc). I'd personally give Martindale the December games, however his future will depend on if he uses the likes of Bradley, Stephen Kelly and Mackay etc in these games. Continually picking the likes of Shinnie, Sean Kelly etc as key starters will soon turn the latter group firmly against him

Edited November 27, 2023 by The Wrong Car

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

5 successful seasons has also got many of our fans expecting us to be top 6 contenders, or even favourites, lowest budget in the league and having that budget cut again doesn't seem to matter to their expectations, reality is though we were expected to struggle this season, and we are

Does feel like theres very little room to be good in this division.

You've obviously got Celtic and Rangers. The Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs have squads thatll have them top half barring some clown shoe management. St Mirren are flying too.

Kilmarnock and Dundee are solid under managers who get it.

So thats effectively 8 teams who should be winning most times when playing the other 4.

The four besides you contain a Motherwell team who seem streaky under Kettlewell and as likely to go 10 winless as 10 unbeaten, County who spent an absolute fortune, and us.

So aye. This is very much a season where the weaker sides are finding the marginal moments are going against them more often than not, so its all coming down to games against each other. You've only played 1 of the 3 teams around you at home so far and you won it, with you playing the next 2 in December.

A very real chance you're on 18+ points by the winter break.

[Livi La Vida Loca]

Without knowing much if anything about the court cases. The issues raised in them are some what historical? So doesn't reflect how the club is "currently run"

Losses? Well they are expected with a cost of living crisis and prices of basically everything increasing. We have also started up the academy again and that won't come cheap. 

Rumours of discontent will always come when a teams in a slump so to believe them is stupid imo. 

New owners. I'd be more concerned if they came in and threw money at it because we all know how that turned out before. They've come in and said they'll cover losses thus offering stability and I'd assume a reassessment will come at the end of the season.

[Livi La Vida Loca]

10 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

A very real chance you're on 18+ points by the winter break.

December is a massive month for us as has already been said. Still sitting bottom come January and you'll be lucky if Martindale himself hasn't chucked it. 

For now the majority of us are just hoping for a tactical shift to come in these upcoming games which leads to some much needed wins.

[Livi]

1 minute ago, Livi La Vida Loca said:

Without knowing much if anything about the court cases. The issues raised in them are some what historical? So doesn't reflect how the club is "currently run"

Losses? Well they are expected with a cost of living crisis and prices of basically everything increasing. We have also started up the academy again and that won't come cheap. 

Rumours of discontent will always come when a teams in a slump so to believe them is stupid imo. 

New owners. I'd be more concerned if they came in and threw money at it because we all know how that turned out before. They've come in and said they'll cover losses thus offering stability and I'd assume a reassessment will come at the end of the season.

Come on the Hogarth, Rankine and Summers have all been created on the current watch. The recent judges view on the hogarth case was damming against the club. That was by the people currently running Livi. That damming outcome cost the club money it could have put against the losses or another player.
 

if the club are getting in on average just now £3.4m ish in revenue and £1.2m is on players where is the rest of the money going and often we are being told they place has limited staff and volunteers. This is the most money Livi has had in a very long time. 
 

agreed around the player discontent surfacing when your not playing very well but its there for all to see how the players are spoken to on match days in front of thousands of people week in week out. It s not just happening on a bad day.

 

in football terms i agree the team are being set up to stop the opposition rather than Livi trying to win football matches and thats compounded by players being played out of position.

[Freedom Farter]

24 minutes ago, Roger the cabin boy said:

If he has a problem with him so what? At this point does it even matter? Hardly unorthodox to criticise the manager now, he’s not the only one (not including myself) on the current  livi forums to voice negative opinions … I get where you’re coming from but it’s not really relevant 

It's relevant that someone isn't a Livi fan giving an honest opinion but rather a saboteur with a hate boner for the club dating back to the Massone era. 

[Livi]

22 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

It's relevant that someone isn't a Livi fan giving an honest opinion but rather a saboteur with a hate boner for the club dating back to the Massone era. 

What a-load of codswallop.

 

not even worthy of a response.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Livi

[Freedom Farter]

16 minutes ago, Livi said:

What a-load of codswallop.

 

not even worthy of a response.

Tell us again how Neil Hogarth was framed? Mind you claimed that last time.

[Livi]

4 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

Tell us again how Neil Hogarth was framed? Mind you claimed that last time.

My point was he didn't walk away of his own accord. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Livi

[Freedom Farter]

Just now, Livi said:

My point was he didn't walk of his own accord. 

You're a genius wee oracle, though. Coming to tell us Livi fans hard truths we refuse to accept. Like John McIlvogue probably not having any money.

Except every Livi fan already knew that straight away, accepted it straight away, and never denied it any point. He took over from Robert Wilson, who also had no money. Wilson is a retired butcher, FFS. That you think us Livi fans think our club is big time is funny. We're under no illusions, there's no bubble for you to burst.

 

[Livi]

32 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

You're a genius wee oracle, though. Coming to tell us Livi fans hard truths we refuse to accept. Like John McIlvogue probably not having any money.

Except every Livi fan already knew that straight away, accepted it straight away, and never denied it any point. He took over from Robert Wilson, who also had no money. Wilson is a retired butcher, FFS. That you think us Livi fans think our club is big time is funny. We're under no illusions, there's no bubble for you to burst.

 

Here was me thinking the club was sold Wilson didn't own the club no sure why being a butcher is relevant. 
 

As much as you can glean from the smoke and mirrors.  Opcco6 ltd have the majority shareholding in Livingston FC ltd. You can see Wilson left that company in August 2023.

Baycup ltd bought the majority shareholding (from Opcco6 ltd?) as per September news flash since then nothing has happened. So if you agree Baycup ltd front man has no money how can the club have been sold to him?

 

Livingston FC ltd has 2 appointments the current CEO and one of the shareholders of Opcco6 ltd no one from Baycup who bought Livingston FC shareholding in September is listed. 
 

For the record not trying to burst anyones bubble. 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Livi

[DiegoDiego]

Sounds like things with Martindale have a few parallels with the end of Dick's reign at Arbroath.

Think you're a month or two away from that point, but it seems like another case of a man who succeeds through force of personality and good recruitment going through a bad patch, recruiting poorly, getting frustrated, being too loyal to some, ostracising others.

I think you'll need to start picking up some points soon before this thread is full of "Will always be a legend at the club, but should have gone out with a bit more dignity." posts.

90% of my knowledge of Livingston comes from this thread though, so I could be talking bobbins.

[mozam76]

6 hours ago, Livi said:

 

if the club are getting in on average just now £3.4m ish in revenue and £1.2m is on players where is the rest of the money going and often we are being told they place has limited staff and volunteers. This is the most money Livi has had in a very long time. 
 

agreed around the player discontent surfacing when your not playing very well but its there for all to see how the players are spoken to on match days in front of thousands of people week in week out. It s not just happening on a bad day.

Revenue figures - any chance of a breakdown? Or is that back of a beer mat stuff?

Player discontent, of whatever level, has always been around. That’s what will happen when the manager is, shall we say, combustible. 

[mozam76]

6 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

You're a genius wee oracle, though. Coming to tell us Livi fans hard truths we refuse to accept. Like John McIlvogue probably not having any money.

Except every Livi fan already knew that straight away, accepted it straight away, and never denied it any point. He took over from Robert Wilson, who also had no money. Wilson is a retired butcher, FFS. That you think us Livi fans think our club is big time is funny. We're under no illusions, there's no bubble for you to burst.

 

Absolutely, irrevocably, in every fucking way, THIS. 

[Livi]

1 hour ago, mozam76 said:

Revenue figures - any chance of a breakdown? Or is that back of a beer mat stuff?

Player discontent, of whatever level, has always been around. That’s what will happen when the manager is, shall we say, combustible. 

Just have a look at the club accounts last posted. 
 

They're for all to see.  Back of fag packet probably  have a wee look at the note from the directors regards the breakdown.

It's not rocket science. 

[Roger the cabin boy]

2 hours ago, mozam76 said:

Absolutely, irrevocably, in every fucking way, THIS. 

 

Really? Sorry to interrupt the narration of whatever ejaculation you were having there but what about this is ringing so true?

 

McIlvogue didn’t take over from Wilson. Mcilvogue is this so-called investment the club has been after, the investment OPCCO shareholders were supposedly ‘blocking’ from coming into the club. But it’s here at last!
 

This new ‘investor’ has been here for 2 months now,  he has no money or he hasn’t parted with a penny, and livi fans *know* and *accept* this?

“THIS”

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Roger the cabin boy

[Cptn Hooch]

18 hours ago, The Wrong Car said:

... however his future will depend on if he uses the likes of Bradley, Stephen Kelly and Mackay etc in these games.

I don't think we'll see him for some time, I believe his injury will keep him out until after the new year at least