Livingston - all the threads merged

[Aberdeen Cowden]

i agree. sad as this is, i really think the sfl should be giving livingston a date for them to satisfy them that they will be able to fulfill their fixtures next season and have a financial plan in place. imagine how they would look if it went tits up for livi after say 10 games and the first division then becomes a league of 9 teams. what a fu**ing farce that would be. the sfl should be at least making their position clear. if livi go bust who will take their place? will it be airdrie? surely airdrie have made signings for their season in the 2nd division? this whole saga needs to be brought to an end soon for all concerned

I'm sure the SFL will be as efficient as they always are and sort this out by 2020.

[Guest zupa]

Just to dampen you theory

I am not a member of the Trust neither was I part of any pre planned discussion on walking out either. I choose to walk out after listening to Massone's p!sh that he keep peddling. We are in a worse postion now than we were 12 months ago having sold 4 players & his alledged £500k investment.

He started to get annoyed as I echoed what Rankine had said earlier & asked if he was going to stand aside as local businesses or fans do not want to do business with him. Its also clear the Coouncil don't want to do business with hime either. He then started his usual raised voice, pointing of fingers & launching into blaming others for "his project" failing - what a crock of sh!te.

Yet again more peddling of sh!te MCL ?

Honesty..........the best policy.

[Guest Wall E]

Why hasn't there been some sort of "Save Livi" fund created where all sorts of donations through bucket collections/events could be made?

It's not a case of handing it to Massone and bailing him out, but surely it would look good to creditors if a few thousand pounds were in a bank account that could buy time when we really do get down to last orders.

My take on that is that, quite simply, Massone would demand/plead for whatever money was raised as it would help him to save the club and not to give it to him would show you to be an enemy of the club.

By not raising any money, he can't lay claim to it.

[southview]

If I were a business owing the council £280k, the last thing I'd be doing is telling the council through the media that they NEED to help me out.

But maybe he is being clever. With these comments, he is putting the ball in the council's court, he is forcing them to decide what will happen with Livi. Take the deal, then we can move on; refuse the deal, then the club is f*cked.

How ironic that it is the debt-ridden club with absolutely no morals calling the tune here.

[KingfaetheSooth]

But maybe he is being clever. With these comments, he is putting the ball in the council's court, he is forcing them to decide what will happen with Livi. Take the deal, then we can move on; refuse the deal, then the club is f*cked.

How ironic that it is the debt-ridden club with absolutely no morals calling the tune here.

He is trying to be clever - but surely it won't wash with the Council - even a Council that built a stadium 14 years ago to get senior football in West Lothian?!

Best thing is to liquidate them and offer the league place to interested clubs as was done last year with Gretna. There are undoubtedly talks happening behind the scenes - so perhaps a new club backed by MacDougall and the fans might get the golden ticket or maybe Spartans - there would be some Karma in an Edinburgh-based club taking Livingston's league place back right enough. If enough Livingston fans care about there club going under - they can start again ala Gretna (2008), (AFC) Wimbledon and Clydebank (Juniors). (AFC) Livingston (2009) can then live within it's means in the Scottish non-leagues and rebuild the club.

Problems might be making sure that all the legal loopholes are sewn-up - so that there cannot be any comeback from Massone and his band of rogues and the time-scale for getting it in place for 2009/10 might be too tight.

I can't really believe this story being put about by Rankine/Massone that Cowdenbeath's league place is available - and could be transferred - but after the Airdrieonian/Clydebank debacle - never say never I suppose.

The only thing that is clear is that we have numerous chancers still trying to make profit out of the carcass of Livingston FC - time for all this nonsense to stop and the football authorities to put in place safeguards/guarantees/fit and proper person test etc. etc. Not holding my breath though.

I take it no-one at Saturday's Massone/Rankine staged-managed show meeting asked Massone/Franchi about the lottery money that is rumoured to have gone AWOL?

[jimbo]

If I were a business owing the council £280k, the last thing I'd be doing is telling the council through the media that they NEED to help me out.

But maybe he is being clever. With these comments, he is putting the ball in the council's court, he is forcing them to decide what will happen with Livi. Take the deal, then we can move on; refuse the deal, then the club is f*cked.

How ironic that it is the debt-ridden club with absolutely no morals calling the tune here.

Yes, agree. I can think of two ways to describe this Rankine move 1) blackmail and 2) barefaced cheek.

It's also a way of finding favour with the nore gullible members of the Livi community. Look at me I have ways and means of making this go away for a while. And make no mistake this is his idea because Massone hasn't got two ha'pennies to rub together let alone £70k.

Edited July 6, 2009 by jimbo

[Guest penelope pitstop]

Goodbye Livingston, goodbye Cowdenbeath, hello Livingston Thistle ...

I see we are going for the smear now MCL. Obviously a last desperate attempt by Massone and Rankine to get the support on their side - it isn't going to work not least because Massone is such a liar that even if there were even the slightest chance of it being true no one would believe him anyway.

Any you have never answered my question - are you going to heed the call and provide your professional expertise for free to the club?

Did anyone mention that court case that LiviDream have against Flynn btw - Massone let details of it slip one evening when he was a bit "tired and emotional" on the Livilions board and no more has been heard about it since. Supposedly £600k in the balance. The case has had a preliminary hearing and has been going on since 2008 (the court case number gives that away) - so why has that not been mentioned - or it is the case that if Massone wins the money will vanish off to Livi Dream and line his pockets and no one else will ever see any of it. It is certainly such a large sum that it should have been dealt with in any credible plan put forward on Saturday even if only to mention its existance and the effect that winning/losing would have and factoring in the different alternatives.

Edited July 6, 2009 by penelope pitstop

[Ivo den Bieman]

Where is all this stuff about Cowdenbeath's league place being up for sale/transfer coming from?

sounds like sheer fucking fantasy to me.

[Ivo den Bieman]

also, Rankine is being very clever. "Give us time I've got 250k" is a very smart pitch designed to cause doubts/divisions in a council already wary of the consequences of being seen to shut the club down. Mind you, if he really does have 250k, the first place he should be sending it is to the council to clear up the problem with the stadium- that's what's going to send Livi to the wall more than anything else.

I just hope the council's resolve is as strong as it seemed to be last week.

Agree also with he calls for the SFL to set a deadline, but won't hold my breath.

[Sergeant Wilson]

He is trying to be clever - but surely it won't wash with the Council - even a Council that built a stadium 14 years ago to get senior football in West Lothian?!

Best thing is to liquidate them and offer the league place to interested clubs as was done last year with Gretna. There are undoubtedly talks happening behind the scenes - so perhaps a new club backed by MacDougall and the fans might get the golden ticket or maybe Spartans - there would be some Karma in an Edinburgh-based club taking Livingston's league place back right enough.

The only thing that is clear is that we have numerous chancers still trying to make profit out of the carcass of Livingston FC - time for all this nonsense to stop and the football authorities to put in place safeguards/guarantees/fit and proper person test etc. etc. Not holding my breath though.

I take it no-one at Saturday's Massone/Rankine staged-managed show meeting asked Massone/Franchi about the lottery money that is rumoured to have gone AWOL?

I've taken out all the boring bits out of your post. I think we all agree with your principles, but you don't need to remind us so often.

God knows who these other investors are, I would hazard a guess at Jimmy Stevenson, possibly Collumbine again, Maybe Jim Innes, if he has recovered from his spell at Airdrie, (I actually felt sorry for him.) People like them and Andy Gemmell will simply fill blazers. Rankine is the main man now that Barr needs to get his bum wiped for him.

I cast no aspertions, but I just remembered, the Airdrie players holiday fund went missing at the end of 2002 season. It was being held centrally, not by the players themselves. It was never explained to the players what happened to it. One of lifes great mysteries.

[EdinburghPar1975]

I just can't get away from this niggling feeling that the Council are going to give in to the emotional blackmail from Rankine, accept the £70k and 'work towards another plan'. Then trot out the line of how they are sympathetic to businesses at this difficult time.

Massone and Rankine have been pretty clever and have made the focal point the council, hoping that people try and force the issue to be resolved without them having to place more cash into the debt.

As time goes on i can see this rumbling on and at this point next year the council will once again be moaning about unpaid rent. As much as it may hurt in the short term I think they have to hold out on this one...

[MCL]

I see we are going for the smear now MCL. Obviously a last desperate attempt by Massone and Rankine to get the support on their side - it isn't going to work not least because Massone is such a liar that even if there were even the slightest chance of it being true no one would believe him anyway.

Any you have never answered my question - are you going to heed the call and provide your professional expertise for free to the club?

It wasn't a smear, merely reporting the rumour that was going around. I mentioned further back in the thread that if Livi died then there would be a purpose built stadium for someone else to fill. East Stirling was my guess as their stadium has gone now. Are they still sharing at Stenny ? Cowdenbeath are in financial trouble apparently and their stadium has been a mess for years.

If there is a will and the other team is given an incentive to relocate then the francise ideal might kick in. Massone/Rankine/McDougall wouldn't have anything to do with it. WLC offer incentives for manufacturing firms to locate in Livi so why not another football team ? The whole she-bang would move including the current board, etc. I'm sure it would be an attractive proposition for some, maybe even Edinburgh City ...

I don't think they would require my professional expertise as they have a photographer in place anyway but I don't see a problem with supplying a few free images when requested. I'm busy on Saturdays covering SPL games so I'm unavailable for the Livi games normally anyway.

[Guest]

also, Rankine is being very clever. "Give us time I've got 250k" is a very smart pitch designed to cause doubts/divisions in a council already wary of the consequences of being seen to shut the club down. Mind you, if he really does have 250k, the first place he should be sending it is to the council to clear up the problem with the stadium- that's what's going to send Livi to the wall more than anything else.

I just hope the council's resolve is as strong as it seemed to be last week.

Agree also with he calls for the SFL to set a deadline, but won't hold my breath.

He's got 250k to "invest". Masone has 300k to "invest". Problem solved. That 550k will comfortably put to bed any likelihood of administration or liquidation. The claims they have made would do it without anyone else being involved. Real world known debt would tumble from 850k to 350k.........maybe too much for a club of their status, but manageable nonetheless.

Massone would then have 800k invested, and Rankine would then have 250k invested. Job done.

Except none of it is true. Because the people spinning the yarn on investment have history......and none of that history involves the truth being told. Livingston FC as ever, is owned and run by shadey people. Until that changes, and the supporters stop backing such regimes, then it isn't going to change. The place is a magnet for chancers.

[Guest]

It wasn't a smear, merely reporting the rumour that was going around. I mentioned further back in the thread that if Livi died then there would be a purpose built stadium for someone else to fill. East Stirling was my guess as their stadium has gone now. Are they still sharing at Stenny ? Cowdenbeath are in financial trouble apparently and their stadium has been a mess for years.

If there is a will and the other team is given an incentive to relocate then the francise ideal might kick in. Massone/Rankine/McDougall wouldn't have anything to do with it. WLC offer incentives for manufacturing firms to locate in Livi so why not another football team ? The whole she-bang would move including the current board, etc. I'm sure it would be an attractive proposition for some, maybe even Edinburgh City ...

I don't think they would require my professional expertise as they have a photographer in place anyway but I don't see a problem with supplying a few free images when requested. I'm busy on Saturdays covering SPL games so I'm unavailable for the Livi games normally anyway.

Or a simpler model might well be to sell the stadium to Tesco for £5 million and be done with the whole sorry saga.

[AND180Y]

Or a simpler model might well be to sell the stadium to Tesco for £5 million and be done with the whole sorry saga.

Tesco are rumoured to be locating in part of the new Dobbies Garden Centre at Livi. They have even fcuked up getting a return for the stadium land now.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

It wasn't a smear, merely reporting the rumour that was going around. I mentioned further back in the thread that if Livi died then there would be a purpose built stadium for someone else to fill. East Stirling was my guess as their stadium has gone now. Are they still sharing at Stenny ? Cowdenbeath are in financial trouble apparently and their stadium has been a mess for years.

If there is a will and the other team is given an incentive to relocate then the francise ideal might kick in. Massone/Rankine/McDougall wouldn't have anything to do with it. WLC offer incentives for manufacturing firms to locate in Livi so why not another football team ? The whole she-bang would move including the current board, etc. I'm sure it would be an attractive proposition for some, maybe even Edinburgh City ...

I don't think they would require my professional expertise as they have a photographer in place anyway but I don't see a problem with supplying a few free images when requested. I'm busy on Saturdays covering SPL games so I'm unavailable for the Livi games normally anyway.

Cowdenbeath in financial trouble? (that's good coming from a Livi fan) Tell us more please - I was just about to renew my season ticket!

[MCL]

Cowdenbeath in financial trouble? (that's good coming from a Livi fan) Tell us more please - I was just about to renew my season ticket!

I said apparently as it's a rumour. I haven't seen the books at Cowden so they may be in good financial health.

I've not seen the books at Livi either so they might be ok too

[Allstars #9]

A simple phone call from WLC to NLC's Jim McCabe will knock this Rankine p1sh on the head. He'll set them straight on this charlatan

at this meeting did nobody even think - wait a minute how did he save Airdrie they were liquidated!!

[banjo player]

I just can't get away from this niggling feeling that the Council are going to give in to the emotional blackmail from Rankine, accept the £70k and 'work towards another plan'. Then trot out the line of how they are sympathetic to businesses at this difficult time.

Massone and Rankine have been pretty clever and have made the focal point the council, hoping that people try and force the issue to be resolved without them having to place more cash into the debt.

As time goes on i can see this rumbling on and at this point next year the council will once again be moaning about unpaid rent. As much as it may hurt in the short term I think they have to hold out on this one...

What would be sweet would be WLC taking a £70k rent deposit off Rankine and his cronies and then finding a way to boot out Livi regardless.

[southview]

He's got 250k to "invest". Masone has 300k to "invest". Problem solved. That 550k will comfortably put to bed any likelihood of administration or liquidation. The claims they have made would do it without anyone else being involved. Real world known debt would tumble from 850k to 350k.........maybe too much for a club of their status, but manageable nonetheless.

Massone would then have 800k invested, and Rankine would then have 250k invested. Job done.

Except none of it is true. Because the people spinning the yarn on investment have history......and none of that history involves the truth being told. Livingston FC as ever, is owned and run by shadey people. Until that changes, and the supporters stop backing such regimes, then it isn't going to change. The place is a magnet for chancers.

Spot on Duncan. Neither Rankine or Massone have the capital to invest. If they did, they would have pumped some money into the club just now to keep the wolves from the door.

I would say paying rent is a prime requirement of any business so if they do have this sort of cash around, why isn't £280k of it winging its way to the council?

Why is nobody asking these guys this question? A big part of their problem could be solved if they pay the council the money! Why do people who get involved with Livi do everything apart from pay people what they are due!

Why isn't Massone being challenged on the whole "we have to sell 300 season tickets or we go bust" comment from a couple of months ago and "everything will be paid by june 30". He says things and then is never tackled when things don't come to pass.