Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 We need to change the ethos at the club in terms of our style of play more than ever. As of next season, we're back to square one in terms of away crowds (taking away Hearts/Rangers/Both. We need to try to compete against the Flyers in terms of offering value for money with regards to entertainment. Like on Saturday when it nearly kicked off? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Algorithms Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Like on Saturday when it nearly kicked off? Nade's trying his best, but there's nobody there to just start smashing people left, right and center. Even under McGlynn we had Mark Campbell who you knew had the potential to kick the shit out of anyone he wanted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Nade's trying his best, but there's nobody there to just start smashing people left, right and center. Even under McGlynn we had Mark Campbell who you knew had the potential to kick the shit out of anyone he wanted. There hasn't been a decent scrap since the Levine / Hogg match up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro Sham Bo Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 McGlynn left at the right time. I wasn't looking forward to another season with him in charge. He'd be better than Murray in that he'd get us organised and hard to beat but I would be looking for a bit more than that from our next manager. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Somehow seems appropriate that we've reached page 666 on the Rovers thread given the mood around the club at the moment Edited December 17, 2014 by roverthemoon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithie Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 There hasn't been a decent scrap since the Levine / Hogg match up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baillieinleeds Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Deserved IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nairney Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Joe Cardle is actually giving Dougie a thumbs up for this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebanda's Handyman Services Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Nade's trying his best, but there's nobody there to just start smashing people left, right and center. Even under McGlynn we had Mark Campbell who you knew had the potential to kick the shit out of anyone he wanted.It's the 21st century. There's bound to be some way we can clone Mark Campbell?Easily one of the best defenders I've seen at the club. Dominant in the air to the extent that forwards didn't even bother contesting long, high balls. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 The 1%? I'd be curious to hear why, Yoss - purely as I've seen nothing at all from that perspective. Always good to hear another point of view, and I think the Murray issue is perhaps the sole thing we've all agreed on, ever! It's not because I'm going to claim we've been much cop for quite a while now, but what of it? I really dislike the sacking culture in football - which is very closely related to the general blame culture which too widely permeates society. Neither life nor football are that simple and the narratives we impose on them rarely help us much. I'd be interested to know what the dressing room feel about it and what the general vibe in the club is. Not that I'm saying the players should have the say or anything, but if there are issues there than the board are in a better position to make the call then any of us. There have been times when I've thought managers should probably go on that sort of basis - or at least when information that's come out subsequently has made me think it was probably the right decision. In Murray's case we're probably not a million miles from the point where if they do feel - on that basis - that there needs to be a change I wouldn't necessarily have a big problem with it. But it should be an extreme measure and as far as it's possible to tell from the outside I don't regard the current situation as being that extremity. Lots of managers have good spells and bad spells, times where it doesn't work out for a season or so, times when it does. Because - while there are better managers and worse managers over the long-term - there are a huge amount of unknowables. He might turn it round and do well as he did for his first year or more, or he might not. Time will tell. In the meantime, I'd rather just let him get on with the job. I'm afraid I'm finding the constant discussion of it a bit tiresome (and unhelpful) and I'll bow out and leave it at that. Hardly a ringing endorsement, I know. and I haven't articulated that very well but it'll have to do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Brilliant Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 By and large I don't disagree. I think the other strongest argument for not changing manager is that we're now at a point in the season where we'd be paying two managers, possibly two management teams, for the privilege of not reaching the playoffs. We're on course for a disappointing outcome to the season, but probably not relegation - it would be.an expensive way of not making any meaningful difference. I'm fed up too, and i've reached breaking point with his management a number of times now. But while we have an immediate hunger for entertainment and also relative success, we should have a sufficiently long term view to tolerate five more pish months. Give him til the end of the season, see how we look at full strength (thinking of Barr especially), unless we.fall into the bottom two. *runs for cover* BOOOOOOOO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 By and large I don't disagree. I think the other strongest argument for not changing manager is that we're now at a point in the season where we'd be paying two managers, possibly two management teams, for the privilege of not reaching the playoffs. We're on course for a disappointing outcome to the season, but probably not relegation - it would be.an expensive way of not making any meaningful difference. Yeah, I nearly said something on those lines too. Statistically the studies I've seen have shown - unsurprisingly - virtually no impact (on average) of club's changing manager during a season. Chances are it'd just be money down the drain, particularly when all we need to do this season is stay up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baillieinleeds Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 It's not because I'm going to claim we've been much cop for quite a while now, but what of it? I really dislike the sacking culture in football - which is very closely related to the general blame culture which too widely permeates society. Neither life nor football are that simple and the narratives we impose on them rarely help us much. I'd be interested to know what the dressing room feel about it and what the general vibe in the club is. Not that I'm saying the players should have the say or anything, but if there are issues there than the board are in a better position to make the call then any of us. There have been times when I've thought managers should probably go on that sort of basis - or at least when information that's come out subsequently has made me think it was probably the right decision. In Murray's case we're probably not a million miles from the point where if they do feel - on that basis - that there needs to be a change I wouldn't necessarily have a big problem with it. But it should be an extreme measure and as far as it's possible to tell from the outside I don't regard the current situation as being that extremity. Lots of managers have good spells and bad spells, times where it doesn't work out for a season or so, times when it does. Because - while there are better managers and worse managers over the long-term - there are a huge amount of unknowables. He might turn it round and do well as he did for his first year or more, or he might not. Time will tell. In the meantime, I'd rather just let him get on with the job. I'm afraid I'm finding the constant discussion of it a bit tiresome (and unhelpful) and I'll bow out and leave it at that. Hardly a ringing endorsement, I know. and I haven't articulated that very well but it'll have to do. Can I ask you a question? Why did you choose Raith Rovers. I mean it shouldn't really register with you as you support Man City, you live in Dunfermline and you come to support us why? Dunfermline should be your team if anything. Just asking mate, don't take offence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopton86 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I see our league game against rangers has been moved to the friday night for bt sport!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Can I ask you a question? Why did you choose Raith Rovers. I mean it shouldn't really register with you as you support Man City, you live in Dunfermline and you come to support us why? Dunfermline should be your team if anything. Just asking mate, don't take offence. No problem and no offence taken. I was a City fan as a kid but we moved from Manchester to Markinch when I was seven. Raith were the nearest team and thus they're the ones we started going to watch. I carried on calling myself a City fan for quite a while, but even although I used to go to Maine Road as often as I could manage in the 90s I've seen many many more Raith games than City ones during my lifetime. (And I've now given up on City entirely, particularly since they sold out to the big money.) The move to Dunfermline came rather later for work reasons. And yeah, I live very near East End Park and it'd be much easier if I were a Pars fan, but I'm just not. I go now and then when opportunity arises (just as I watch other local teams sometimes) but you can't force these things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 If you're suggesting - and I think you probably are - that I'm maybe a bit less emotionally committed to Raith than many on here then I'd say you've probably got a point. I'd dispute any suggestion that that has an impact on the substantive issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADMO Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 God another Tv game Vs that manky mob .. I make that 4 in less than 1 year I think ? Lets hope the Cup game then League game aren't another 2 4-0 or 6-0 humping's, its never fun on national Tv ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baillieinleeds Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 If you're suggesting - and I think you probably are - that I'm maybe a bit less emotionally committed to Raith than many on here then I'd say you've probably got a point. I'd dispute any suggestion that that has an impact on the substantive issue. Cheers mate, it's always good to get some knowledge. I agree with the big money thing at Man City, but they are a team you just can't hate. I just sometimes get a devoid vibe off you sometimes. Raith are so entrenched in my psyche believe it or not.i just want my club to do well. I had such high hopes for Bert, but unfortunately it just isn't happening. My Uncle played for Raith, and my dad desperately wanted me to follow Dundee United, but Raith is my hometown club. I could never support anyone else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 For the avoidance of any doubt, my dislike of Man United remains entirely unaffected. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavyDavy Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 It's not because I'm going to claim we've been much cop for quite a while now, but what of it? I really dislike the sacking culture in football - which is very closely related to the general blame culture which too widely permeates society. Neither life nor football are that simple and the narratives we impose on them rarely help us much. I'd be interested to know what the dressing room feel about it and what the general vibe in the club is. Not that I'm saying the players should have the say or anything, but if there are issues there than the board are in a better position to make the call then any of us. There have been times when I've thought managers should probably go on that sort of basis - or at least when information that's come out subsequently has made me think it was probably the right decision. In Murray's case we're probably not a million miles from the point where if they do feel - on that basis - that there needs to be a change I wouldn't necessarily have a big problem with it. But it should be an extreme measure and as far as it's possible to tell from the outside I don't regard the current situation as being that extremity. Lots of managers have good spells and bad spells, times where it doesn't work out for a season or so, times when it does. Because - while there are better managers and worse managers over the long-term - there are a huge amount of unknowables. He might turn it round and do well as he did for his first year or more, or he might not. Time will tell. In the meantime, I'd rather just let him get on with the job. I'm afraid I'm finding the constant discussion of it a bit tiresome (and unhelpful) and I'll bow out and leave it at that. Hardly a ringing endorsement, I know. and I haven't articulated that very well but it'll have to do. Sorry, I completely disagree with almost all of that. Any any job, your continuation in a role is based on your abilities and performance in said role, measured by a number of agreed KPI's. As football is a results driven business, I can almost guarantee that football managers are appraised on winning games and I'm pretty sure the BoD have set a KPI that is met by only winning 8 games from 36 in a calender year. If they have then we are utterly doomed. There are also the business factors that are impacted by a managers performance - a poor product will result in less cash flow, this is evident with the low crowds and the risk of reduced season ticket sales next season. Grant Murray has also not been able to demonstrate in his time in charge that he is able to "turn things around" - slumps in form seem to be all too permanent to just be "slumps". Whether or not he is a great guy has no bearing, it really doesn't matter if everyone in the dressing room and the club love him - that's not his job. Like it or not, football is a business, no matter how big or small a club is. And in any business, if you're not cutting the mustard then it's time to go. I actually agree with you on the "sacking culture" thing - by that I mean the knee jerk reaction sackings that you get if a manager loses 5 games or expectations are unrealistic. However, Grant Murray does not fall into that category - his removal from his post would be completely justifiable and understandable. Sometimes, you cannot defend the indefensible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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