Who's Going To Uni?

[Honest_Man#1]

Check your student handbook. With our students, the onus is on them to contact the tutor, not the other way around. And 3 emails in a week - so what? You've had 7 months to get in touch. Why should the tutor drop everything s/he is working on just because you've decided to leave it to the last minute to get your finger out?

My own undergraduate dissertation students have until mid-April to submit. All have been told I'm on holiday for the last 2 weeks of their time. If they want feedback - send me stuff now.

Amazing that students feel that supervisors just sit around waiting on their golden words arriving in an inbox. How long do students think it takes to provide meaningful feedback for something like this?

Thank f**k I didn't get someone like you for my supervisor.

[scottsdad]

Simple enough question - what do students expect?

 

I've had the whole spectrum, from students who disappear for ages only to show up at the last minute, feeling harassed and expecting me to drop everything else in order to pull them through, through to those who say to me on day one "I want a meeting every two weeks - let's set a time". 

 

At the beginning of the dissertation process I sit them down individually and tell them what works well and what doesn't. Mostly the students listen to me, follow my advice, and pass with a very good grade. Some, though, seem to think that Uni is school and that we're teachers sent to chase them up. 

 

You might be thankful you didn't have me as a supervisor. That's probably fair - I set my dissertation students to work hard from day 1. I am very critical in my feedback. And I expect the students to spread their work throughout the time allotted. If you prefer to spend your Christmas break on holiday, or decide that things can wait, you probably would have hated me. All I can point to are the students who've been through it with me, passed with a good grade and have ended up as independently capable workers with a good degree. Those who, come the last 2 weeks, have things all in hand and look at their classmates running around totally stressed. But, hey, thank f**k there are people who'll smile and pat you on the back out there instead of folk like me, eh?

 

So back to my question - what do students expect?

[SweeperDee]

Thank f**k I didn't get someone like you for my supervisor.

I have to agree with him tbh.

I just handed in my dissertation yesterday and it was made clear from the get go that supervisors have more than just one student to supervise. Moreover they have other things to do other than to supervise, such as teach classes, prepare lectures, provide feedback for other classes and so on. Has to be remembered that more often than not they are also probably a researcher as well as a lecturer.

If you keep in regular contact with your supervisor, and don't f**k them about, they will be more than happy to help you if you need it.

[AUFC90]

Accepted offer for 3rd year Electrical Power Engineering at Glasgow Caley. Can't wait.

Edited March 23, 2016 by AUFC90

[scottsdad]

Yep. Lecturers are contracted to spend somewhere between 30 and 40% of their time teaching. From the get go I tell my students that if they send me something, feedback takes at least a week. So long as they make progress and meet me regularly, send me new drafts regularly, all is good. But if someone sends me a draft days before a deadline - and I've not seen or heard from the student in a while - then it just isn't gonna happen

[callum-ayr]

I did try 4 times prior to Christmas to set up a meeting, however she was based in Paisley and unwilling to travel down to Ayr on days where she wasn't there (unlike other tutors who have for fellow students) and the time she did stay after a dissertation class, it was literally 10 minutes.

Last minute? I've finished and had it bound and handed in a week early, I know folk who haven't even don their lit review.

It has been more a case of me sitting about waiting to a suitable date for my lecturer, however it never happened. I even offered to travel to Paisley after sending what was a copy of my nearly finished work. I'm not too nitty picky about it as I've asked other lecturers about my stuff, but I'm not the only student from my campus who the lecturer hasn't particularly bothered with. It doesn't help that there are only 11 of us in 4th year at Ayr and hundreds at other uws campuses, but we shouldn't miss out.

Christ, nobody even turned up for our induction this year!

[Mr Bairn]

Whilst I have no doubt there are good and bad supervisors out there I don't think Scottsdad is unreasonable at all. I'm sure if you play ball with him then he plays ball with you, he just quite rightly doesn't allow students to take the piss out of him.

[Honest_Man#1]

Simple enough question - what do students expect?

I've had the whole spectrum, from students who disappear for ages only to show up at the last minute, feeling harassed and expecting me to drop everything else in order to pull them through, through to those who say to me on day one "I want a meeting every two weeks - let's set a time".

At the beginning of the dissertation process I sit them down individually and tell them what works well and what doesn't. Mostly the students listen to me, follow my advice, and pass with a very good grade. Some, though, seem to think that Uni is school and that we're teachers sent to chase them up.

You might be thankful you didn't have me as a supervisor. That's probably fair - I set my dissertation students to work hard from day 1. I am very critical in my feedback. And I expect the students to spread their work throughout the time allotted. If you prefer to spend your Christmas break on holiday, or decide that things can wait, you probably would have hated me. All I can point to are the students who've been through it with me, passed with a good grade and have ended up as independently capable workers with a good degree. Those who, come the last 2 weeks, have things all in hand and look at their classmates running around totally stressed. But, hey, thank f**k there are people who'll smile and pat you on the back out there instead of folk like me, eh?

So back to my question - what do students expect?

I completely agree with you hatred of students who turn up late with stuff and expect supervisors to drop what they're doing. In all honesty I find that the majority of students that I know are lazy bums who can't organise their time and have an incredibly annoying feeling of self-importance where they get angry if lecturers don't have time for them whenever they need it. It was more your attitude of not replying to emails quickly or giving feedback quickly in what looked like it was to show them that you're the boss.

I have a great relationship with my supervisor. Met him early on and got started with stuff and managed my time to make sure threat I wasn't late with anything, even set up deadlines wth him to make sure it suited him. But at the same time he's been equally great at accommodating me. He replies to emails very quickly and gives feedback on work within a day or two so I'm not sitting twiddling my thumbs when I could be fixing stuff or moving on.

Obviously it's a two way system, and I have plenty of sympathy for lecturers who get stuck with students who are a nightmare to deal with and then expect everything to work out fine.

ETA: I think booking a holiday for the last two weeks before the dissertation submission date is a bit poor tbh. I know it's totally up to you when to take your holiday, but it just seems like you've picked the absolute worst time for your students without caring at all.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Honest_Man#1

[callum-ayr]

Whilst I have no doubt there are good and bad supervisors out there I don't think Scottsdad is unreasonable at all. I'm sure if you play ball with him then he plays ball with you, he just quite rightly doesn't allow students to take the piss out of him.

I'm quite sure you're right. There are good supervisors out there, just like there are good students. However there are some pish supervisors as well as pish students. Plenty of pish ones in my class and it's only a group of 11.

[paul-r-cfc]

Had my last ever class of my degree today. Total anti climax as expected but still can't quite believe that's it (until exams of course)

[callum-ayr]

That's her now emailed saying she is looking forward to reading the finished article, so maybe what I had sent her was ok! Going to be a long 2 months now.

[Alex_14]

I've found my dissertation to be absolutely fine. I finished it a few weeks ago, but the hand in isn't until mid April. Mind you, I do need to take out about 40 words but that's a job for later what with coursework and essays flying about. As for my tutor, he's been great. We had a meeting at the start and have emailed throughout the process of formulating my dissertation. I am aware he's got a job and a life away from my dissertation, whilst he's aware that similar can be said for me. If you don't leave it to the last minute, it's more than manageable. 

[Aberdeen-Warrior]

Got a knock back from strathclyde. Just waiting to hear back from GCU now

[Honest_Man#1]

I've found my dissertation to be absolutely fine. I finished it a few weeks ago, but the hand in isn't until mid April. Mind you, I do need to take out about 40 words but that's a job for later what with coursework and essays flying about. As for my tutor, he's been great. We had a meeting at the start and have emailed throughout the process of formulating my dissertation. I am aware he's got a job and a life away from my dissertation, whilst he's aware that similar can be said for me. If you don't leave it to the last minute, it's more than manageable.

This is pretty much how I've found the dissertation and my final year in general. I get the feeling from most students that they love to play the 'my life couldn't be any harder' line when in reality if you plan your time out well and prepare properly etc then it's a great lifestyle. If you are struggling with deadlines and dissertation work then I think in the majority of cases it will be the fault of the student.

[Alex_14]

This is pretty much how I've found the dissertation and my final year in general. I get the feeling from most students that they love to play the 'my life couldn't be any harder' line when in reality if you plan your time out well and prepare properly etc then it's a great lifestyle. If you are struggling with deadlines and dissertation work then I think in the majority of cases it will be the fault of the student.

 

Absolutely. I've got deadlines piling up after my dissertation hand in, so I'm doing them now. Wouldn't that be common sense? 

 

There's a guy on my course who, as of last week, had done 800 words of his dissertation. He'll then fire into rants about how shit certain lecturers are. I despair. 

[cement]

First day at uni my advisor told me I was not a 'high flyer' and basically told me I was not up to the course I had chosen. I had given up a job to go to go to uny so was gutted. Got a first in the end but that would have never happened if that pep talk had never happened. You get out what you put in. I am a bit cynical about what degrees are worth but can't deny that bit of paper makes life easier in the end. Get pished but keep the heid.

[Hedgecutter]

As an undergrad, you see lecturers as well, just lecturers. What you don't realise is that their mindset goes as follows:

1. Got to organise that meeting with Dr X & Y to finish writing that paper

2. Got to get writing that other paper

3. Need to get that abstract for conference Z in by the end of the week.

4. Got to get materials together for some lecture tomorrow.

5. Need to get back to my PhD students who have been after a meeting for about a week now.

6. I need lunch... and a strong coffee

7. Need to write emails to companies for funding purposes.

8. Find some time for those pesky useless-until-proven-otherwise undergrads.

...

1254. Find sympathy and time for students who leave things to last minute.

[Miguel Sanchez]

I wrote my dissertation myself in two weeks without anyone seeing it and it got delightfully 2:1. Perhaps nothing symbolised my time at university quite like that sentence.

[Hedgecutter]

I always found it a bit shit how undergraduates are clearly a total afterthought to academics despite educating them being arguably the single largest activity a university undertakes, even if not actually the raison d'etre of the institution. It was only when I did a postgrad that I felt close to being actually respected by any of them. Not really sure how it could ever be otherwise, mind.

Let's be honest, they're academic research hubs (where lecturers spend less than half the time teaching) which make much of their money through undergrad fees. That's why undergrads exist, until they prove themselves as competent and bring in some further PhD or Masters funding.

I must admit, having helped some 4th years with recent work, it's difficult not to treat some of them with total contempt. It truly is 'useless until proven otherwise'. The gulf between PhD and scraping an honours degree is staggering in cases.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Hedgecutter

[Adam]

I wrote my dissertation myself in two weeks without anyone seeing it and it got delightfully 2:1. Perhaps nothing symbolised my time at university quite like that sentence.

It obviously can be done, but it's going to be shite, so your last two years' coursework must have been shit hot. A kiddie I went to uni with done his in eleven days, and was a broken bloke come the end of it. Completely made up his primary research, but still was awake for the best part of two days towards the deadline.