Estragon Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Hang on. Everybody stop what they're doing, there's a 45 year old man gone missing. Last seen Chicago Illinois, be on the look out everyone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugna Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 It wasn't impossible, but it was of a far higher standard than the SQA had intimated, both by their (lack of) course materials and specimen papers. Sounds like you're comparing with the expected CfE standard, rather than with historical Higher Maths papers. There have always been some quite hard A-B questions, but the C questions really can't be that tough. Are you able to post one or two of the toughest questions? I'd quite like to see if they're significantly harder than traditional Higher Maths A-B questions. Suspect that they won't be, but I'm prepared to be persuaded if you are able to post the questions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarley Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Never mind that, can you share the dognapping van in Australia please.We don't have dogs or vans or naps in Australia so it wouldn't make any sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) Sounds like you're comparing with the expected CfE standard, rather than with historical Higher Maths papers. There have always been some quite hard A-B questions, but the C questions really can't be that tough. Are you able to post one or two of the toughest questions? I'd quite like to see if they're significantly harder than traditional Higher Maths A-B questions. Suspect that they won't be, but I'm prepared to be persuaded if you are able to post the questions.That's kind of the whole point, though. We should be comparing with the expected CFE standard - it's a CFE Higher. There are just too many daft wee things in it that a C candidate will not pick up on. There's a derivative question that's dT/dt, too many folk will integrate it with respect to x, not t. There's a compound angle question involving tan2x, which is easy if you realise that tan2x = sin2x/cos2x, but loads of folk won't. Here are some of the harder questions: That's an insane question to give a 16-year old. Thing is - what's the first part even asking? Time taken to do what? Swim across? Eat the zebra? Start talking about upstreams and you've got folk thinking it's a vector question. From having a look at the paper, this is supposed to be a Level C question, worth 4 marks. There's far too much work involved for a Level C question there. A discriminant question with a = 2, b = 2-p and c = p-2. Horrible. Integral of dT/dt. I would wager at least half of the candidates will integrate with respect to x. This picture is being widely shared on social media. Ironically, it's not one of the harder questions - it's pretty straightforward and even gives you the recurrence relation. However, look at the first question - calculate the height of the toad. It's not "calculate the height the toad has reached". It's "calculate the height of the toad". Unbelievable - we have candidates who'd written "not enough information given about toads, but I think they are about 2-3 inches". You've got to laugh. It's been a horrific exam. We have kids who have went from 85%+ in their prelims, to acing every single past paper, and the specimen material and specimen paper are nothing like the standard required. Our council are putting a focus group together to respond to it. Edited May 22, 2015 by Gaz 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Richelieu Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Despite acing A-level Maths and doing it for 2 years at uni, I wouldn't have a baldy notion how to even begin answering those questions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 That's kind of the whole point, though. We should be comparing with the expected CFE standard - it's a CFE Higher. There are just too many daft wee things in it that a C candidate will not pick up on. There's a derivative question that's dT/dt, too many folk will integrate it with respect to x, not t. There's a compound angle question involving tan2x, which is easy if you realise that tan2x = sin2x/cos2x, but loads of folk won't. Here are some of the harder questions: zebra.png That's an insane question to give a 16-year old. Thing is - what's the first part even asking? Time taken to do what? Swim across? Eat the zebra? Start talking about upstreams and you've got folk thinking it's a vector question. IMG_1326.JPG From having a look at the paper, this is supposed to be a Level C question, worth 4 marks. There's far too much work involved for a Level C question there. IMG_1329.JPG A discriminant question with a = 2, b = 2-p and c = p-2. Horrible. IMG_1328.JPG Integral of dT/dt. I would wager at least half of the candidates will integrate with respect to x. frog.png 13 years on and the fear of looking at an exam paper and knowing I don't have a clue what I'm supposed to be doing comes flooding back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) 13 years on and the fear of looking at an exam paper and knowing I don't have a clue what I'm supposed to be doing comes flooding back.There are seven of us in our department. IIRC four of us, including myself, have Honours in maths. Two have ordinary degrees, one has a masters in actuarial maths. At lunchtime on Tuesday the seven of us spent the entire time debating how to answer that crocodile question. There's something seriously wrong if seven qualified maths teachers can't agree in 40 minutes how to do a question that a 16-year-old kid is supposed to do in 10. EDIT: I am an idiot, it was Wednesday. Edited May 23, 2015 by Gaz 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarley Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 zebra.png That's an insane question to give a 16-year old. Thing is - what's the first part even asking? Time taken to do what? Swim across? Eat the zebra? Start talking about upstreams and you've got folk thinking it's a vector question. Pfft. I wouldn't be where I am today without knowing how long it takes for a crocodile to reach a zebra if it travels through water 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarley Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Is this Higher Maths? My memory might be sketchy, it is 25 years since I sat it, but I can't remember questions being that hard! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyTON Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Clearly its fishing Friday on my timeline "Whats good to eat at ........."<oh so you are going out please wait till 10 people beg for more info before spilling them details> "Cant find anything"<Why would you be looking? Oh thats right you are going on holiday do go into excruciating detail please once 5+ people like this vague status>"mundane sign.jpg"<Waiting on you going into great details of your gym habits once u get 8 or more comments of where is that?>"car image.jpg titled upgraded"<Its a suzuki swift (i think) with no discernible difference from the last 20 pics posted at the weekend - Do tell us what you have done>"catty inspirational quote" <Clearly directed at someone but not tagged so you do the comment dance while everyone showers you with sympathy>About 2 dozen of these types of post in my timeline this morning aloneI dont know whats going on with FB but all my settings seems to have changed in the past week or so.Im now seeing every single like from all my friends - toggling the settings doesn't seem to help any. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karpaty Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 1432297656556.jpg ^^^ off to join his big team, Clyde 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 ^^^ off to join his big team, Clyde He'd win you the league. Sum boi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karpaty Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 He'd win you the league. Sum boi I meant you, seeing as that pic doesn't tell us who it is 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 There are seven of us in our department. IIRC four of us, including myself, have Honours in maths. Two have ordinary degrees, one has a masters in actuarial maths. At lunchtime on Tuesday the seven of us spent the entire time debating how to answer that crocodile question. There's something seriously wrong if seven qualified maths teachers can't agree in 40 minutes how to do a question that a 16-year-old kid is supposed to do in 10. Indeed! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 There are seven of us in our department. IIRC four of us, including myself, have Honours in maths. Two have ordinary degrees, one has a masters in actuarial maths. At lunchtime on Tuesday the seven of us spent the entire time debating how to answer that crocodile question. There's something seriously wrong if seven qualified maths teachers can't agree in 40 minutes how to do a question that a 16-year-old kid is supposed to do in 10. Am I oversimplifying this or is it not just a case of substituting x for 0 and 20 for the first two, then differentiating the formula and substituting the rate of change for zero in part 2? I'd tell you the answer but have completely forgotten how to differentiate. It has been well over 10 years. The person who drew the diagram should be shot if that is the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I meant you, seeing as that pic doesn't tell us who it is James Craigen 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugna Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 That's kind of the whole point, though. We should be comparing with the expected CFE standard - it's a CFE Higher Thanks very much for taking the time to do that, Gaz. Very interesting. Here's my take on it, which wont be popular but is an alternative view: I reckon that the maths in these is really quite simple as long as you take the time to read the questions properly and are comfortable with understanding the basic concepts (not just having memorised them). The weakness is in the narrative, which I think is a consequence of trying to make maths relate to everyday situations (such as controlling a crocodile optimally...). This is the major flaw I see in the philosophy of CfE: integrating literacy and numeracy into all subjects, and in the case of Maths, vice versa. It's important to accept that some things, such as Maths, are genuinely hard for a lot of people. The reason I see these as simple, i think, is that my background is engineering and so context is everything: the nature of the problem scuppers engineers far more than the mechanics of the calculation or algorithm, certainly in exam situations. The "time taken" definition, for example, appears earlier in the question but not at the point where the equation is given (separated from it by a figure, which of course breaks the continuity). I completely agree with the "height of the toad" comment. The part I've quoted from your post is where I think I disagree in principle: it's important to have continuity within CfE Highers; but it's even more important to have continuity across SCQF Level 6. Again, thanks very much for posting those details. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightswoodBear Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I sat Higher maths, twice, and failed, twice. Mostly due to my total lack of preparation. Those questions have just brought back the total feeling of helplessness that I felt when sitting those exams. You cock. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 In fairness, it was fucking insane. The SQA have screwed them over big time.Fair enough. Hopefully they'll make next year's much easier to compensate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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