A great feeling at Cappielow..

[Gaz FFC]

Erm yes, let's throw a fucking parade for the sum of their fight in cup games, while neglecting their gutless showings over the entire league campaign.

Pretty much sums up what the rest of us are thinking.

Morton's demise is pretty damn glorious - 3rd only to Sevco and Hearts.

[SpoonTon]

Shiels was never going to be the right man to keep us up, and I certainly dont think it was impossible for us to do that from the point he took over. He still had 20 games to work with.

Rae should have sacked Moore after the cowdenbeath match at the very latest and replaced him with a manager who would come in to organise, bring some fight, and add some new players in key positions. The run of defeats in November and December did a huge amount of damage. Which ultimately is Rae's fault for clinging into Moore, procrastinating on the new appointment, and hiring the wrong man for the task at hand.

We needed someone to come in, put Reid and McLaughlin together at centre half (something which wasn't done once this season) and organise from there. Adding quality like Cole would have given us a real platform to improve from there. The one thing we really needed was a creative midfield player, instead shiels brought in Robertson. Unfit forwards weren't the short term solution either. It's a long long way from the main reasons why we're going down, but shiels hasn't done very well - the bottom line here, though, is that Rae allowed yet another manager to talk his way into a job.

Edited February 24, 2014 by SpoonTon

[Hannibal Lecturer]

Shiels was never going to be the right man to keep us up, and I certainly dont think it was impossible for us to do that from the point he took over. He still had 20 games to work with.

Rae should have sacked Moore after the cowdenbeath match at the very latest and replaced him with a manager who would come in to organise, bring some fight, and add some new players in key positions. The run of defeats in November and December did a huge amount of damage. Which ultimately is Rae's fault for clinging into Moore, procrastinating on the new appointment, and hiring the wrong man for the task at hand.

We needed someone to come in, put Reid and McLaughlin together at centre half (something which wasn't done once this season) and organise from there. Adding quality like Cole would have given us a real platform to improve from there. The one thing we really needed was a creative midfield player, instead shiels brought in Robertson. Unfit forwards weren't the short term solution either. It's a long long way from the main reasons why we're going down, but shiels hasn't done very well - the bottom line here, though, is that Rae allowed yet another manager to talk his way into a job.

I was speaking to a mate at the weekend and he said Morton were going with Jimmy Calderwood right up till the last minute when your chairman changed his mind and went with David Icke.......

[baillieinleeds]

Just make sure you drag Alloa or Cowdenbeath down wi you.

Cannae have those 2 bob 70s 'stadia' when the focus is on the league next season.

Next seasons championship is for attractive looking grounds.....and QOS.

Just copying Falkirk then. Brockville was fucked and you spent money on players. Selfish fuckers if you ask me.

[Stevie Aitken's Love Child]

I was speaking to a mate at the weekend and he said Morton were going with Jimmy Calderwood right up till the last minute when your chairman changed his mind and went with David Icke.......

I would be interested to know how a friend of yours would know what was going on in Douglas Rae's head regarding our new manager. Wasn't Caldewood already in a job in Holland by the time that we made the decison anyway?

Quick check of wikipedia says no, he got the job at De Graafschap in January, but quit after a month.

I do think that Shiels made a couple of changes too many. You can't change 8 squad members in January and expect them to go out on the pitch, half of which have hardly played in a year, and get instant results. It's almost like we are going through a mini pre-season right now, with so many guys trying to get their fitness up. It was a huge gamble, and it looks like it's not going to pay off.

[Gaz FFC]

Just copying Falkirk then. Brockville was fucked and you spent money on players. Selfish fuckers if you ask me.

I didn't.

[SpoonTon]

I was speaking to a mate at the weekend and he said Morton were going with Jimmy Calderwood right up till the last minute when your chairman changed his mind and went with David Icke.......

Calderwood was quite clearly the guy with the experience to give us the best possible chance. It didn't need a drawn out double interview process, Rae should have sacked Moore after losing 5-1 to cowdenbeath (or a few weeks earlier after losing to alloa) and approached Calderwood immediately. Instead Rae continued to believe that somehow his ability to pick a manager based on listening to them speak superseded anything else.

[vikingTON]

I was speaking to a mate at the weekend and he said Morton were going with Jimmy Calderwood right up till the last minute when your chairman changed his mind and went with David Icke.......

Sounds legit.

Calderwood was quite clearly the guy with the experience to give us the best possible chance.

How long, specifically, has Jimmy Calderwood spent managing at the bottom of the First Division?

A: About as long as he has spent managing without a massive chequebook to spunk on players and about as long as his latest gig lasted.

[Gaz FFC]

I've heard it be said Calderwood was well out our price range when we were in the SPL.

How the hell could you lot afford him???

Edited February 24, 2014 by Gaz FFC

[The Moonster]

I would be interested to know how a friend of yours would know what was going on in Douglas Rae's head regarding our new manager. Wasn't Caldewood already in a job in Holland by the time that we made the decison anyway?

Quick check of wikipedia says no, he got the job at De Graafschap in January, but quit after a month.

I do think that Shiels made a couple of changes too many. You can't change 8 squad members in January and expect them to go out on the pitch, half of which have hardly played in a year, and get instant results. It's almost like we are going through a mini pre-season right now, with so many guys trying to get their fitness up. It was a huge gamble, and it looks like it's not going to pay off.

How many players are already signed for next season? Were the 8 guys brought in just on deals to the end of this season?

[vikingTON]

There are four first-team players under contract for next season: Caraux, McKee (!), Bachirou and Hands.

Still, no doubt a raft of SPL clubs will be battering down the door to pick up Bachirou, being such a 'top-quality' defensive 'midfielder'.

[The Moonster]

There are four first-team players under contract for next season: Caraux, McKee (!), Bachirou and Hands.

Still, no doubt a raft of SPL clubs will be battering down the door to pick up Bachirou, being such a 'top-quality' defensive 'midfielder'.

Fairly easy for Shiels to clear out then.

[SpoonTon]

How long, specifically, has Jimmy Calderwood spent managing at the bottom of the First Division?

A: About as long as he has spent managing without a massive chequebook to spunk on players and about as long as his latest gig lasted.

About 4 months. He did a decent job at Ross County, nothing spectacular but good enough for what he was asked to do. He also joined Killie mid-season to help steer them away from relegation. And he has about 15 years experience managing in Scotland and Holland.

Shiels was ok at Killie, with a mixed (being kind here) record in Northern Ireland at clubs no bigger than some Junior clubs over here. Plus, he's always been a slow starter because he wants to overhaul everything in the team and play his way.

I know which one has the experience better suited to what we needed.

I've heard it be said Calderwood was well out our price range when we we're in the SPL.

How the hell could you lot afford him???

I'm not sure that's relevant, must have been 4 or 5 years ago? I'm guessing his wage demands have lowered in that time.

[vikingTON]

About 4 months. He did a decent job at Ross County, nothing spectacular but good enough for what he was asked to do. He also joined Killie mid-season to help steer them away from relegation. And he has about 15 years experience managing in Scotland and Holland.

Shiels was ok at Killie, with a mixed (being kind here) record in Northern Ireland at clubs no bigger than some Junior clubs over here. Plus, he's always been a slow starter because he wants to overhaul everything in the team and play his way.

'About 4 months' was all that was needed, were taking over at Kilmarnock relevant experience then your characterisation of Shiels' job there as "ok" would have been laughed out the room. Calderwood has failed to make a single job stick since 2009, which suggests he is damaged goods.

[SpoonTon]

'About 4 months' was all that was needed, were taking over at Kilmarnock relevant experience then your characterisation of Shiels' job there as "ok" would have been laughed out the room. Calderwood has failed to make a single job stick since 2009, which suggests he is damaged goods.

He signed short term deals with these clubs, I don't think there was ever the intention to stick around for longer than that. This would have suited us perfectly, as it would have allowed us to assess the situation again in the summer.

Shiels has won 1 of his first 9 games with us, he won 1 of his first 13 with Killie. That says most of what need to be said in terms of his appointment.

[vikingTON]

If you think anyone else would have did substantially better with the unmitigated dross at the club then you're nothing short of mental. Just because sand-dancers like Barry McKay could skoosh the Third Division in a team of millionaires does not make them decent First Division players, nor do the usual collection of fat messes and wasters available to clubs in the January window constitute a basis for recovery. The team is fundamentally out of its depth in every area of the park and was relegated bar the shouting after dropping a stack of points against weak opponents in October. Shiels' job was to clear out the dross at the club and move towards building a new side to win League One next season, regardless of the bullshit and bluster from the chairman down about 'securing league survival'. It was delusional.

Whether Shiels' will achieve the second, more important part of the job is arguable, the accomplishment in the first phase has been absolutely conclusive.

[Dunning1874]

The County team Calderwood took over wasn't cut adrift at the bottom and didn't have a dreadful squad in comparison to the rest of the division. They were in ninth place when he took over and still close to Cowdenbeath in eighth, he didn't have to overhaul the squad and didn't have a huge gap to claw back. The situations simply aren't comparable and the fact that he kept County up from that position says nothing about his ability to keep a team up from the position we were in.

[SpoonTon]

If you think anyone else would have did substantially better with the unmitigated dross at the club then you're nothing short of mental. Just because sand-dancers like Barry McKay could skoosh the Third Division in a team of millionaires does not make them decent First Division players, nor do the usual collection of fat messes and wasters available to clubs in the January window constitute a basis for recovery. The team is fundamentally out of its depth in every area of the park and was relegated bar the shouting after dropping a stack of points against weak opponents in October. Shiels' job was to clear out the dross at the club and move towards building a new side to win League One next season, regardless of the bullshit and bluster from the chairman down about 'securing league survival'. It was delusional.

Whether Shiels' will achieve the second, more important part of the job is arguable, the accomplishment in the first phase has been absolutely conclusive.

There's nothing substantial to your analysis of the situation. It was a difficult situation, certainly, but When Shiels took over it wasn't all lost, and the team didn't need the transformation that Shiels has attempted.

The fact is that we've fallen further behind every other team since Shiels took over. And while he's marginally improved upon Moore's record, it's nothing to shout about. Building a new side for next year? The only decent player he's brought in is Cole, and I can't see us holding onto him for next season. Apart from that there's a couple of big names on short term deals, a couple of duds, and a couple of loan players. Where's the building?

Look at the squad he inhereted, it's not as bad as some have suggested. We have 2 good goalkeepers, McLaughlin would have been fine at centre-half alongside Reid (both are now at clubs above us), and add Taggart to that and you have 4 out of the 5 at the back who did more than well enough last season on many occasions. Then there are Fred and Imrie, who have shown that they can play an important role in teams performing much better than the one they're currently in. We should have stabilised things around that instead of damaging any chance of a comeback by trying to change too much. We needed quality, and all we got was quantity - and it's not true to suggest that there weren't good players signed up in the last couple of months.

The County team Calderwood took over wasn't cut adrift at the bottom and didn't have a dreadful squad in comparison to the rest of the division. They were in ninth place when he took over and still close to Cowdenbeath in eighth, he didn't have to overhaul the squad and didn't have a huge gap to claw back. The situations simply aren't comparable and the fact that he kept County up from that position says nothing about his ability to keep a team up from the position we were in.

Of course it's not the same siutation, and I never said that Calderwood would have kept us up. I said that, given his experience and record, he stood a much better chance of doing so than Shiels. He took a club on 17 points after 20 games (so heading for about 30-31 points at that rate) and helped them to finish on 41 points (1.5 points per game isn't bad at all). It certainly doesn't say nothing about his ability to manage at this level.

Edited February 24, 2014 by SpoonTon

[Wasps1]

Someone who frees 7 or 8 players and brings in 6 or 7 . And still cant turn it around there is something more deeper than just trying to get a run of win togeather. There looked no passion no guts . No confidence on sat thoughtout that whole side and in my view I wouldnt keep sheilds as manager next season . I know it sounds drastic lads but if u go down nothing to lose . Get rid of all the big time charlies and get guys in who are winners . The club cant keep sacking managers and players that only costs money . Good loyal fans base need better on the park 1600/2000 all season says something about ur club

[Boghead ranter]

Shiels has won 1 of his first 9 games with us, he won 1 of his first 13 with Killie. That says most of what need to be said in terms of his appointment.

he's still on course to replicate his Killie record with Morton then.