Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[EdTheDuck]

I reckon they could make a fortune out of rangers chess, they have all the pieces…almost.

The Queen, obviously.

The King (Dave)

The Knights (blue)

The pawns (clearly the fans who are the rangers equivalent of cannon fodder)

The ( c)rooks – probably far more than the customary 2

The Bishops are going to be a bit tricky though…

The rules of the game are going to have to be adjusted because I think the point of rangers chess should be either to leave a smoking crater or a Tesco on the board; instead of checkmate the winner would call 'checkout'.

Edited April 5, 2012 by EdTheDuck

[sjc]

Daily Rangers

Anyone know why? Or indeed what the first hurdle is?

Lets be honest here.......the Daily Record is willingly doing Paul Murray & the Blue Knights bidding.

After all.........PM was serving that succulent lamb back in the "good ol' days" wasn't he ?!

[kildog]

I can see Roy crying into his hanky after seeing the error of his ways.

http://forum.rangers...pic=216028&st=0

Thank god, he's getting ripped for that. If everyone agreed, I think the irony overload would have been too much for me to take.

[7-2]

I can see Roy crying into his hanky after seeing the error of his ways.

http://forum.rangers...pic=216028&st=0

At a time when a fellow football club (The Rangers F.C.) teeters on possible liquidation, they are trying to buy one of our star players on the cheap which is morally reprehensible.

If bidding low is 'morally reprehensible', I wonder what bluechip, the Loyal Bluenose from Gourock, would call the actions of a club that made bids to sign another clubs star player, lets take a name at random and call him Francisco Sandaza, knowing full well they were about to go in administration, the last bid coming about 24 hours before they actually went into administration?

Edited April 5, 2012 by 7-2

[chico]

At a time when a fellow football club (The Rangers F.C.) teeters on possible liquidation, they are trying to buy one of our star players on the cheap which is morally reprehensible.

If bidding low is 'morally reprehensible', I wonder what bluechip, the Loyal Bluenose from Gourock, would call the actions of a club that made bids to sign another clubs star player, lets take a name at random and call him Francisco Sandaza, knowing full well they were about to go in administration, the last bid coming about 24 hours before they actually went into administration?

Just think if they hadn't messed with sandazahawk's noodle how many more goals the fermers would have had.

Did that chicanery cost the fermers a shot at the CL?

[~~~]

I can see Roy crying into his hanky after seeing the error of his ways.

http://forum.rangers...pic=216028&st=0

Cope and paste please

[Hipster Dufus]

I reckon they could make a fortune out of rangers chess, they have all the pieces…almost.

The Queen, obviously.

The King (Dave)

The Knights (blue)

The pawns (clearly the fans who are the rangers equivalent of cannon fodder)

The ( c)rooks – probably far more than the customary 2

The Bishops are going to be a bit tricky though…

The rules of the game are going to have to be adjusted because I think the point of rangers chess should be either to leave a smoking crater or a Tesco on the board; instead of checkmate the winner would call 'checkout'.

This gambit is taking an absolute age to play out.

Hopefully they will end up rookit due to all the cheque, cheque, cheques.

[P45]

At a time when a fellow football club (The Rangers F.C.) teeters on possible liquidation, they are trying to buy one of our star players on the cheap which is morally reprehensible.

If bidding low is 'morally reprehensible', I wonder what bluechip, the Loyal Bluenose from Gourock, would call the actions of a club that made bids to sign another clubs star player, lets take a name at random and call him Francisco Sandaza, knowing full well they were about to go in administration, the last bid coming about 24 hours before they actually went into administration?

He's getting a bit of a slagging for that though.

Also calling them (The Rangers F.C.) makes him sound like a fucking moron.

[7-2]

Just think if they hadn't messed with sandazahawk's noodle how many more goals the fermers would have had.

Did that chicanery cost the fermers a shot at the CL?

Sandazahawk! Excellent.

Sadly it's a couple of humpings from Motherwell and Dundee United and the SPL's fixture chappy that have made us outsiders for the CL spot. However, Susan Boyle hasn't warmed up the vocal chords yet.

[7-2]

He's getting a bit of a slagging for that though.

Also calling them (The Rangers F.C.) makes him sound like a fucking moron.

Jolly good. I didn't look further than his post as I just took it his fellow brain stormers would have agreed with him as has been the case with any thread I've looked at on there.

Supporting The Rangers F.C. makes him a fucking moron anyway.

[craigkillie]

For completely unbiased reasons, I would love West Brom to sign Naismith for £25m, but for Rangers to go bust anyway a few days later. Not sure why that appeals to me so much.

[MEADOWXI]

Was going to start this with the phrase 'There's one thing I don't get......' But that not true there are hundreds.

Anyway here is the query which appears so obvious think I must be missing something.

The big debts are HMRC, Ticketus & Whyte. With I am assuming lots of other smaller debts to other clubs, suppliers etc.

If Ticketus get into a deal with the Blue Knights so they agree not to be a creditor and get paid back something in the longer term then they would have no influence on the CVA.

This would surely push up the debt to HMRC as a percentage to well over the 25% required to block any CVA (and this is only looking at the small debt of £15Mill (I think) into consideration).

If HMRC can block any CVA then they would have to liquidate as agreeing to a CVA for unpaid tax is a hell of a can of worms to open.

HMRC blocked the Dundee CVA until the rents were added to reduce the HMRC percentage below 25% forcing them to agree.

HMRC cannot accept a CVA if they have more than 25% of the debt - it would be madness by them.

Or am I missing something.......

[DensDerry80]

Sandazahawk! Excellent.

Sadly it's a couple of humpings from Motherwell and Dundee United and the SPL's fixture chappy that have made us outsiders for the CL spot. However, Susan Boyle hasn't warmed up the vocal chords yet.

Do you think you would fill your ground if you make the CL qualifiying pre qualifying round? I hope you lot make it ahead of United that would be unbearable, Lorraine would have a wide-on for weeks!

[DensDerry80]

Was going to start this with the phrase 'There's one thing I don't get......' But that not true there are hundreds.

Anyway here is the query which appears so obvious think I must be missing something.

The big debts are HMRC, Ticketus & Whyte. With I am assuming lots of other smaller debts to other clubs, suppliers etc.

If Ticketus get into a deal with the Blue Knights so they agree not to be a creditor and get paid back something in the longer term then they would have no influence on the CVA.

This would surely push up the debt to HMRC as a percentage to well over the 25% required to block any CVA (and this is only looking at the small debt of £15Mill (I think) into consideration).

If HMRC can block any CVA then they would have to liquidate as agreeing to a CVA for unpaid tax is a hell of a can of worms to open.

HMRC blocked the Dundee CVA until the rents were added to reduce the HMRC percentage below 25% forcing them to agree.

HMRC cannot accept a CVA if they have more than 25% of the debt - it would be madness by them.

Or am I missing something.......

Quite sure HMRC never accepted the CVA, they just ended up having no choice in the matter. They along with the bitter duo chisolm and dodds voted against it.

to Refresh our poor minds, Just Who is the biggest creditor at rangers just now? it seems obvious to me that its HMRC by some margin?

[jagfox]

Hopefully the winning bid will be signed in a disused underground carriage. That'll keep the subway loyal on side

[welshbairn]

to Refresh our poor minds, Just Who is the biggest creditor at rangers just now? it seems obvious to me that its HMRC by some margin?

Depends on the status of Ticketus and the result of the big tax case..

[killingfloorman]

Depends on the status of Ticketus and the result of the big tax case..

I don't get that. Surely even teh wee tax case gives HMRC 25%?

[welshbairn]

I don't get that. Surely even teh wee tax case gives HMRC 25%?

I think Rangers owe about £14 million to HMRC before the big tax case. Ticketus are down £27 million. Who owes that money and whether it is an unsecured debt has yet to be decided in the courts.. So it's possible that Ticketus could be the biggest creditor..

[MEADOWXI]

Quite sure HMRC never accepted the CVA, they just ended up having no choice in the matter. They along with the bitter duo chisolm and dodds voted against it.

to Refresh our poor minds, Just Who is the biggest creditor at rangers just now? it seems obvious to me that its HMRC by some margin?

Exactly - It was forced on them as they had less than 25% of the debt.

A CVA can only be accepted if more than 75% of the debt vote for it.

If you have say 26% of the debt you can literally make all the decisins and tell them to take a run a jump.

It's pay up or die if you have a controlling % of the debt listed for CVA.

[Colin M]

Was going to start this with the phrase 'There's one thing I don't get......' But that not true there are hundreds.

Anyway here is the query which appears so obvious think I must be missing something.

The big debts are HMRC, Ticketus & Whyte. With I am assuming lots of other smaller debts to other clubs, suppliers etc.

If Ticketus get into a deal with the Blue Knights so they agree not to be a creditor and get paid back something in the longer term then they would have no influence on the CVA.

This would surely push up the debt to HMRC as a percentage to well over the 25% required to block any CVA (and this is only looking at the small debt of £15Mill (I think) into consideration).

If HMRC can block any CVA then they would have to liquidate as agreeing to a CVA for unpaid tax is a hell of a can of worms to open.

HMRC blocked the Dundee CVA until the rents were added to reduce the HMRC percentage below 25% forcing them to agree.

HMRC cannot accept a CVA if they have more than 25% of the debt - it would be madness by them.

Or am I missing something.......

If HMRC are currently owed 15 million and that ISN'T 25%+ of current debt, then debt currently stands at > £60 million. (This is certainly conceivable if Ticketus are to be considered a creditor, otherwise it'd be a bit "How the f**k...."?)

This means that total debt after the BTC is determined could be in a worst case scenario easily > £100 million.

For HMRC to agree to a CVA in that scenario, what would it need to look like? A bid of £10 million would mean HMRC would need to be accepting < 10p in the pound (these are obviously very rough and rudimentary calculations, and don't consider eg paying the administrator fees on top, or indeed paying anything for the shares to own the club too). Is this a likely outcome? If not, what would be needed to "buy Rangers" including a CVA and an agreement to buy the shares from Whyte?

If it is not worst case scenario, there is no liability from the big tax case and HMRC still holds >25% of the debt, then we can assume debt is < £60 million. An offer of £10 million to a CVA still only gives 17p in the pound if debt is even that high. Would that be acceptable to HMRC? In other football club CVAs has anyone ever offered anything like that number?

If HMRC can block a CVA now, you would assume a CVA can't be done before the BTC result is known. Even if they can't block it, you would assume it is daft to carry out a CVA knowing that it could be scuppered by the result of the BTC.

The position of HMRC here seems to determine everything about what will happen. Unless HMRC are willing to "do a deal" and take much less than they're owed if they win the tax case, a CVA just doesn't seem likely.

Even a generous CVA would cost a lot of money. It will be interesting to discover how much debt there actually is, how much of it is owed to the tax man, and how much money is actually involved in these bids, before any money can even be invested in the club itself.