Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Guest Kincardine]

From the same 2010/11 accounts I referred to a post or so ago....

£40m? ahem...

In our accounts posted in 2009 we had a turnover of £40M. This is our lowest recent revenue. I don't see why you see this as being at all contentious.

Sorry I assumed you could understand the difference between "lowest recent revenue" and "last revenue".

[wunfellaff]

In our accounts posted in 2009 we had a turnover of £40M. This is our lowest recent revenue. I don't see why you see this as being at all contentious.

£113.5 million for the last two years that are published. You don't seem to get that the higher the figure the bigger the fall, and so the SKY cash is even more important for your survival. Esp in Div3.

I agree with the OP completly.

Look below though?

Below Div3? OK.

Sorry I assumed you could understand the difference between "lowest recent revenue" and "last revenue".

Sorry I assumed you could understand the difference between recent ie last available, and 2008

[pozbaird]

Been out all day. Are they dead? Are they saved? Has anything remotely of interest happened?

[Guest Kincardine]

£113.5 million for the last two years that are published. You don't seem to get that the higher the figure the bigger the fall, and so the SKY cash is even more important for your survival. Esp in Div3.

The number over the past 2 years don't matter. We know that next year (if we survive) will be smaller. My projection was £30M and I don't see how you can object to that. This is 25% less than our lowesr recent revenue figure.

Now IF we retain our SPL status (not certain) and IF we finish 6th (which was the point of my original post) then the difference between 1st and 6th would amount to about 5% of our turnover.

SFL3 has nothing to do with this.

[hellbhoy]

The number over the past 2 years don't matter. We know that next year (if we survive) will be smaller. My projection was £30M and I don't see how you can object to that. This is 25% less than our lowesr recent revenue figure.

Now IF we retain our SPL status (not certain) and IF we finish 6th (which was the point of my original post) then the difference between 1st and 6th would amount to about 5% of our turnover.

SFL3 has nothing to do with this.

I do think £30 million is pushing a bit ! after all there will be some hefty debt servicing for years to come and have heard rumours of less than £20 million for club for all total running costs.

You won't have another SDM throwing money unto the wind and the new owners will be seeking a return in profits.

[dirty dingus]

Who's making the t-shirts? Heres another idea for a piece of merchendise to raise some much needed funds for a PB last minute final final bid.

Release a Gordon Dalziel doll where you pull the string out off his back and it says. "Scottish football needs a strong Rangers" If you say Gordon Doll, what about sporting intergrity? It pishes it pants and sticks its wee plastic fingers in it's ears. Could be a winner..

[Fife Saint]

The number over the past 2 years don't matter. We know that next year (if we survive) will be smaller. My projection was £30M and I don't see how you can object to that. This is 25% less than our lowesr recent revenue figure.

Now IF we retain our SPL status (not certain) and IF we finish 6th (which was the point of my original post) then the difference between 1st and 6th would amount to about 5% of our turnover.

SFL3 has nothing to do with this.

A small part of a big problem, isn't it. Nobody knows how this will pan out.

Even the expected Newco in the SPL will have unknown sanctions against it, add that to a fans revolt from supporters of other clubs and next season is shaping up as an apocalypse either way.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Fife Saint

[scottxs]

good point made on real radio.

what would stop a normal creditor non spl club from putting a freeze on the money that rangers get from spl for finishing 2nd.

if they can't pay spl clubs can they be punted out for bringing the game into disrepute.

[ray_of_licht]

Been out all day. Are they dead?

Not quite

Are they saved?

Not quite

Has anything remotely of interest happened?

No.

Oh wait........

No.

[pozbaird]

Not quite

Not quite

No.

Oh wait........

No.

Ach, another damp squib of a day then. Maybe tomorrow will actually bring something new, in the shape of the SFA appeal hearing, and the BBC documentary.

Until then... time to put the internet to bed for another day. (Adopts 'Big Brother' Geordie announcer voice.... Day 92 in the big house administration...)

[Guest Kincardine]

I do think £30 million is pushing a bit ! after all there will be some hefty debt servicing for years to come and have heard rumours of less than £20 million for club for all total running costs.

£30M was a guess based on our lowest recent income and deducting 25%. Even if it's £20M it's 3x more than any SPL club apart from Celtic.

There will be no debt to service.

if they can't pay spl clubs can they be punted out for bringing the game into disrepute.

They can't. You're thinking of English rules where football debts get preference. They don't in Scotland.

[graeme_p]

Is there not a further elephant in the european room. Is there not a case in turkey where one team is getting pursued for loss of earnings by an other team because they were found guilty of match fixing. if a cva is agreed would it not leave the ongoing business open to a similar legal challenge?

[hellbhoy]

£30M was a guess based on our lowest recent income and deducting 25%. Even if it's £20M it's 3x more than any SPL club apart from Celtic.

There will be no debt to service.

They can't. You're thinking of English rules where football debts get preference. They don't in Scotland.

A CVA is flexible and what Spuey Green has put in towards it won't cover what will be agreed.

Creditors will push for as much as possible,the CVA pot will be a lump sum up front then installments of the agreed amount..So Rangers will still have to pay future installments to creditors ! If I'm right in what I've read.

[Torfason]

I may have got my numbers a little wrong - but not by that much.

The new Sky deal is worth £80 million over 5 years. Let's say £16M a year. The SPL then deduct expenses and parachute payments from that. Let's say £2M? This leaves £14M to be distributed. Let's assume, too, that the distribution formula doesn't change.

The formula is:

1 - 4% + 13% = 17%

2 - 4% + 11% = 15%

3 - 4% + 5.5% = 9.5%

4 - 4% + 4.5% = 8.5%

5 - 4% + 4.0% = 8.0%

6 - 4% + 3.5% = 7.5%

7 - 4% + 3.0% = 7.0%

8 - 4% + 2.5% = 6.5%

9 - 4% + 2.0% = 6.0%

10 - 4% + 1.5% = 5.5%

11 - 4% + 1.0% = 5.0%

12 - 4% + 0.5% = 4.5%

So for being 1st we'd get 17% of £14M ie £2.7M.

For being 6th we'd get 7.5% of £14M ie £1.05M.

So we'd 'lose' £1.65M for being 6th rather than top. Obviously a big sum.

However our lowest income over the past 5 years has been £40M. Even if that drops to, say, £30M next season the loss of Sky money from going from 1st to 6th is about 5% of turnover.

Your club has a turnover of around £4M. Sky money matters a hell of a lot to you but less so for us.

I'm not saying this to be arrogant - but simply pointing out that we can take a big hit on fan-base and on TV revenue and still have at least 3 times the income of other SPL clubs apart from Celtic.

How much of that £40M included money from qualification for European competitions or winning the league or cups? All that goes away in the land of the diddy team and Murray Park and Ibrox don't get any cheaper to run just because you aren't winning anything.

Have a look at the earnings of Hibs or Dundee Utd for example, to see how much clubs that size actually earn from the whole system. I realize you have far bigger crowds but other than gate receipts, what other revenue streams will you have as a 6th place team to get you to the £30M you suggested?

As for my own team, clubs like mine start every season with 2 business plans, one for survival and one for relegation, so any drop in income is already part of our contingency plan.

[AND180Y]

good point made on real radio.

what would stop a normal creditor non spl club from putting a freeze on the money that rangers get from spl for finishing 2nd.

if they can't pay spl clubs can they be punted out for bringing the game into disrepute.

Roughie is an arse. Rangers are in administration. Administration prevents a creditor from raising action or progressing with dilligence.

[wunfellaff]

£30M was a guess based on our lowest recent income and deducting 25%. Even if it's £20M it's 3x more than any SPL club apart from Celtic.

There will be no debt to service.

And 'if' still in admin at start of next season I wonder if the proposed new rules re loss of 75% SPL income would apply. Thats due back on 30/05??? I think.

[hellbhoy]

And 'if' still in admin at start of next season I wonder if the proposed new rules re loss of 75% SPL income would apply. Thats due back on 30/05??? I think.

I think that's the TV revenue only they will lose

[scottxs]

Roughie is an arse. Rangers are in administration. Administration prevents a creditor from raising action or progressing with dilligence.

all the real radio presenters are arses

just thought it was interesting and that rarely happens on real radio.

[Granny Danger]

Been out all day. Are they dead? Are they saved? Has anything remotely of interest happened?

Yes. Rebekah Brooks was charged with perverting the course of justice. She said:

"I am baffled by the decision to charge me."

"I cannot express my anger enough that those closest to me have been dragged into this unfairly.

"One day the details will emerge and people will see [the decision to charge] as nothing more than an expensive sideshow and a waste of public money as a result of an unjust and weak decision."

She's like a ginger Rangers.

[Caff]

I'm a long time lurker here so I'm not sure if were allowed to post links to other forums. Other than RangersMedia of course! But someone posted this link on the RangersTaxCase blog. It seems that Mr Green is a non-exec director of a company called TRICOR who are having a spot of VAT bother too!

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11440683&t=8671347

Some of the comments on the first link are interesting.

Mmm, not sure. At least TRIC and Rangers will have something in common, as they both have the VAT man after them.