Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Son of Ally]

I'm new to P&B so go easy on me please!

We live in interesting times. And this forum is good value.

On my travels today it struck me that Charles Green must have a lot ( and varied ) contacts if he can muster 20 people/groups to invest in Rangers.

Big question is..... how many approaches did he have to make to get support. 50-100? After all, its a pink elephant he's trying to sell.

And how the hell did it stay so quiet. They had 3 months to ruminate and keep it all hush hush

[Guest Kincardine]

I believe the idea is there is an overlap of officers and Directors between one of Greens companies and a tiny company which is entangled in a VAT dispute also involving PNC (VAT naughtiness almost always involves two companies).

I am almost positive, though, that the whole thing has no relevance to Rangers. Serial director shares board with somebody involved with penny stock isn't dispositive, and link to Rangers is from obvious boiler room guy trying to talk up price.

There's also another factor: You'd not put money in to Rangers unless you're either an altruist or looking to make a buck.

The only thing near to altruist we had was Paul Murray and he was skint.

Ergo Green and Co must be looking for a return; haven't the money for a 'big' club so must be looked on with some scepticism.

[Drooper]

Fair point. I was unduly harsh. I apologise.

Apology accepted.

Group hug (I floss regularly )?

[Son of Ally]

I'm new to P&B so go easy on me please!

We live in interesting times. And this forum is good value.

On my travels today it struck me that Charles Green must have a lot ( and varied ) contacts if he can muster 20 people/groups to invest in Rangers.

Big question is..... how many approaches did he have to make to get support. 50-100? After all, its a pink elephant he's trying to sell.

And how the hell did it stay so quiet. They had 3 months to ruminate and keep it all hush hush

[TheLip69]

I honestly think that the majority of SPL clubs outwith Celtic could not afford to drop a million pounds plus of revenue a season,

It wonmt be anywhere near that figure, while we may not get the "windfall" of a match against rangers we wont have the increase ancillary staff, or the huge police bill that an OF match generates. We wil still have a match, someone will take your place, whether it be Dundee or Falkirk, or even Partick Thistle it wont matter there will still be an income. Ask any club whether they would rather have Rangers demoted to the 3rd or have themselves relegated to the First Division. You know what they'd say dont you? Bye bye Rangers. I wouldn't be surprised if Hibs stance comes from the fact that they have been preparing a budget just in case they got rlegated and realised that 2 OF matches a season is much preferable to none at all. This question of finance is purely and simply a smokescreen to scare the gullible into believing their club may go bust without Rangers. I dont believe any club will go bust, I believe they will cut their cloth accordingly and survive, some may even thrive with a more competitive league. While the Rangers media whores keep telling us we cant survive without Rangers and their fans, those same fans are threatening boycotts all over the place. I've got a funny feeling this is all posturing and Rangers will survive, but I really wish they would die.

[Fife Saint]

I'm new to P&B so go easy on me please!

We live in interesting times. And this forum is good value.

On my travels today it struck me that Charles Green must have a lot ( and varied ) contacts if he can muster 20 people/groups to invest in Rangers.

Big question is..... how many approaches did he have to make to get support. 50-100? After all, its a pink elephant he's trying to sell.

And how the hell did it stay so quiet. They had 3 months to ruminate and keep it all hush hush

No, you're not. I just saw you a minute ago.

[Drooper]

There's also another factor: You'd not put money in to Rangers unless you're either an altruist or looking to make a buck.

Or, as I suggested 30 pages or so ago, you are clinically insane.

I think this applies to investing in any football club, though.

[lanky_ffc]

The real costs are of increased cost in raising debts, the anticipation that some clubs will need to be paying for services before they are received or at least put down a big deposit and the probability that the value of their playing assets will all fall as clubs simultaneously try to reduce wage bills and liquefy assets. There is a specific name for it when a highly leveraged market simultaneously attempts to liquefy assets and deleverage: Minsky moment. And trust me when you get a deflationary event kicking off, its gutwrenchingly difficult to stop. So your costs will be going up, income coming down, assets devaluing and will need more operating cash to maintain business operations. Highly leveraged clubs like say.... Hearts... may find no willing sources to roll over their existing commercial paper (or what ever the debt structure of the club is).

The credit risks are two fold. Firstly for each club in a deflationary market with shrinking revenue streams the risks of not being able to meet existing debt and less so new debt will make the debt riskier and the yeilds you are being asked for be going towards junk levels. And the second risk is AN Other club goes pop as the season goes on and this causes a serious blow to your (and the rest of the leagues) revenue, the potential of someone blowing up so bad they cannot fulfill fixtures is there. So there exists an inherent risk of chainreacting bankruptcies.

You really think your club chairmen are all thick? You really think they dont know how pissed you will all be? You really think its for a few bob TV money all this pish and bother is over?

Scottish football is a highly leveraged market with the risk of a significant part of its income stream ceasing to exist in an unstructured fashion. Any club with a reasonable debt portfolio will look like Greece or worse to people who lend the money. Ive said this all before.

But no the little villagers cant listen. Too many big words and not enough FTOF in my posts.

The down side risks are not 'a few less quid'. You will be trying to sell in a market already saturated by the Allan McGregors, Steve Naismiths and Sonny Alukos going for a song while every other club is trying to cut wage bills. You will be giving players away.

Good luck with it though. What have Rangers to loose? A couple of years in the lower divisions then up relatively debt free.

The most ridiculous post I've ever read on here. An SPL without Rangers would be akin to Wall Street after the collapse of Lehman Bros? Aye, ok...

[pozbaird]

What Rangers needed was someone who could be what Jack Walker was to Blackburn, Dave Whelan / Wigan, or John Madjeski / Reading.

What they have is a succession of shifty looking cnuts.

Shame.

[lanky_ffc]

Just catching up with Alex Thomson blogs and found Green's "CV" very interesting. Maybe I'm being a bit naive, but I can't see how a legitimate businessman could have so many directorships -and of such short length - in that period of time. Also quite interesting to see Thomson citing some of the individuals who may form part of this mystery 20 which may or may not exist.

[Dunning1874]

On the last day of the season St Johnstone, on the verge of European qualification had Rangers as visitors crowd 6500. Our last Euro day was versus Dundee who also had something to play for attracted a full house north of 10,000. Rangers seriously over estimate their value.

Moral is that competitive games attract crowds and Dundee are the answer to every question

Next time you get the opportunity on air, please inform Dodds and Traynor of this and continue to challenge the utter pish they've been coming out with. Impressed with your comments so far.

[hellbhoy]

There's also another factor: You'd not put money in to Rangers unless you're either an altruist or looking to make a buck.

The only thing near to altruist we had was Paul Murray and he was skint.

Ergo Green and Co must be looking for a return; haven't the money for a 'big' club so must be looked on with some scepticism.

Green leaves hasn't taken on the club yet and may do runner after thoroughly examining the books and wait until the club has been liquidated first then try and pick a bargain knowing there are easily 50,000 + victims ERM I mean customers for pillaging ERM I mean supplying services to.EASY MONEY.

Edited May 15, 2012 by hellbhoy

[Drooper]

Oh sure - I agree with that and given our recent experiences I am nervous. However, just because he has/had a business partner called Nazim Khan doesn't make Nazim Khan either an investor in Ranger or 'the Indian family'.

TBH, I'm surprised that D&P aren't being subjected to heavier scrutiny over this. At the end of the day, they look to be signing things over to Green and his mystery consortium. Indeed, I wonder if they actually know (or care) who the Mystery Twenty are.

[pozbaird]

TBH, I'm surprised that D&P aren't being subjected to heavier scrutiny over this. At the end of the day, they look to be signing things over to Green and his mystery consortium. Indeed, I wonder if they actually know (or care) who the Mystery Twenty are.

I said this a few pages back - given the reaction towards the SPL and SFA for not doing enough to ensure the stand-up guy was 'fit and proper', how on earth can the SPL and SFA allow any mystery men to be involved in the Green takeover?

As Ally might put it - Who ARE these people?

[GirondistNYC]

1337115046[/url]' post='6240953']

Just catching up with Alex Thomson blogs and found Green's "CV" very interesting. Maybe I'm being a bit naive, but I can't see how a legitimate businessman could have so many directorships -and of such short length - in that period of time. Also quite interesting to see Thomson citing some of the individuals who may form part of this mystery 20 which may or may not exist.

Directorships arent generally a full time job so you can, and many do, have multiple positions if not actively in an executive position. Some of his look like ports agency ventures and those can be wound up quick if partners / players move on. Early stage companies can get bought for a profit or wound down with minimal losss when their initial justification falls away. Lots of reasons and can't infer he's a spiv just from that.

More interesting to me is Green's much more concrete relationship with Wayne Rooneys agent, since a) agents running football clubs doesn't have a very good track record and raises major conflicts issues, b) he invented, or claims to have invented, the "image rights" approach that HMRC balked at and settled with several EPL clubs. I'm thinking that association is suboptimal for Rangers right now.

[wunfellaff]

Oh sure - I agree with that and given our recent experiences I am nervous. However, just because he has/had a business partner called Nazim Khan doesn't make Nazim Khan either an investor in Ranger or 'the Indian family'.

Maybe not, but how sweet, and I know Nazim Khan is possibly a common name, but how feckin sweet if this Nazim Khan is the entrepeneur that was of Dragons Den fame and he IS involved.

He tried to buy a baby on camera when doing charity work during the Pakistan Floods of 2010

Pure 100% speculation on my part but how amusing would this make it?

One look at the books and Mr. Green ''I'm out''

[Musketeer Gripweed]

I'm new to P&B so go easy on me please!

We live in interesting times. And this forum is good value.

On my travels today it struck me that Charles Green must have a lot ( and varied ) contacts if he can muster 20 people/groups to invest in Rangers.

Big question is..... how many approaches did he have to make to get support. 50-100? After all, its a pink elephant he's trying to sell.

And how the hell did it stay so quiet. They had 3 months to ruminate and keep it all hush hush

I'm new to P&B so go easy on me please!

We live in interesting times. And this forum is good value.

On my travels today it struck me that Charles Green must have a lot ( and varied ) contacts if he can muster 20 people/groups to invest in Rangers.

Big question is..... how many approaches did he have to make to get support. 50-100? After all, its a pink elephant he's trying to sell.

And how the hell did it stay so quiet. They had 3 months to ruminate and keep it all hush hush

Get the papers. Get the papers.

[Guest Kincardine]

TBH, I'm surprised that D&P aren't being subjected to heavier scrutiny over this. At the end of the day, they look to be signing things over to Green and his mystery consortium. Indeed, I wonder if they actually know (or care) who the Mystery Twenty are.

I suspect they don't give a f**k as long as they get a cheque for £8.5M. If held to scrutiny they will argue that getting paid from Green is worth more than liquidating our assets.

[Witold Sygula]

Does anyone know when this BBC documentary is airing?

It's due to be broadcast on May 23rd, and I posted here last night that Minty is trying to secure an injunction to stop it being broadcast as it contains certain, ahem, allegations about Minty hiring a private detective to listen in on Fergus McCann's phone calls so that he could outbid him.

I checked with the person who told me this, and he insists his source is reliable and it isn't just another round of internet tittle tattle from armchair warriors who haven't discovered girls yet.

He is confident his source isn't taking the piss, and accepts that it was in the days before mobile phones and phone hacking was known about but nevertheless private detectives had their trade secrets......I'm told to listen out for the mention of Gordan Petric in this context, whom both of the Ugly Sisters were chasing.

It does also seem that some Rangers fans have got wind of this.....

http://forum.rangers...howtopic=219521

We'll see if anything happens on the 23rd. I hope it's true and people I trust insist it's true but there's so much bollocks going on there's just no telling.

I'm no lawyer, so I'm guessing...if Minty get's an injunction are the BBC allowed to go public and say that they're not being allowed to show the programme?

[Drooper]

On the eve of the SFA appeal hearing, is anyone bold enough to offer a prediction as to what will happen.

I've read various theories on this....

- some (including the RTC folks) seem to believe that the tribunal over-stepped the mark in imposing the signing embargo, and the Rangers appeal in this respect will be upheld. Having poured over the tribunal protocol etc., I can see where they are coming from on this one, and I have a niggling feeling that this might well be the decision. Quite how significant it will be on the grand scheme of thing remains to be seen. My thoughts are that the main impact will lie in Rangers supporters in particular considering this a victory in their campaign against the SFA, as opposed to something that more accurately resembles a technicality. This is a worry, as the moronic hordes don't need encouraging;

- another suggestion has been that the 12 month embargo will be suspended. I can't see any logic in this at all. If it is a sanction that fell within the scope of the tribunal, why what possible grounds would they have for suspending it? So.... it will either remain in place, or be dropped altogether. I fear the latter will be the case;

- as for the fine, I've honestly no idea. If the embargo isn't applicable after all, then the SFA have to look at holding Rangers to account after what was a pretty damning report of their misdeeds. Would there be any point in increasing the financial penatly for a club in administration, though. Who knows. My prediction, this will remain in place.

So, my ill-informed guess is that the embargo will be dropped and the fine remain in place. It's possible that an alternative sanction to the embargo will be imposed, but I'm not sure what that might be - possible expulsion from the Scottish Cup next season?