TheLip69 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 One of the things about this whole episode that has annoyed me most is the myth perpetually put out by Rangers and the MSM is that Scottish Football would die without them and that the putting down of Rangers would have a massively detrimental affect on the other clubs... what utter nonesense. By that logic every team that is relegated should go into administration which clearly is not the case or the Pars, Falkirk, Inverness, Hamilton etc would be in administration. Indeed most Pars fans I know are looking forward to returning to the 1st after the drudgery of the SPL and of playing in a league dictated by 2 teams. The attendence figures bear this out aswell - take some of our old firm crowds this season and compare them to our games against our biggest rivals in the 1st... SPL 'Old Firm' Home Games 2011-12: Rangers (H) - 7,577 Rangers (H) - 7,464 Celtic (H) - 10,140 1st Division 'Biggest Rivals' Home Games 2010-11: Raith Rovers (H) - 7,158 Raith Rovers (H)- 11,052 Falkirk (H) - 5,121 Falkikk (H) - 7,828 Also, if those figures were for home fans only then there would probably be a difference of 4-500 less in the number of Pars fans who attended the old firm games at east end compared to games against Raith / Falirk in the 1st. Granted these games had the edge that they were all important games in a competetive league which helped draw big crowds and also the fact they were against our biggest rivals. But what it shows is the lack of a Rangers fixture does not spell doom for the other clubs - and as a benefit your club loses fixtures where the home support dont actually attend due to being sick of the bigotry baggage etc that is visited to your ground. A bigger SPL with more teams and playoffs means more potential games like Dundee Utd - Dundee / St Johnstone - Dundee / Pars - Falkirk / Pars - Raith Rovers / Motherwell - Hamilton / Ross County - Inverness - games the fans want and will come out for. And if there is any shortfall any money from the lack of a Rangers game / TV money then reduce the budgets accordingly. I see the point and I agree with what you are saying, but the real benefit of the SPL over the First Division is not in matches against the OF. Compare and contrast your lowest home crowd in the SPL with your lowest in the First Division. Then look at the total crowds through your gates in a league season in Division One against a league season in the SPL. The Motherwell/Hamilton thing, no thanks, it's never been a big draw for Motherwell fans, we'd rather have Airdrie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sting777 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) D&P would have done well to have had some of the CVA money (if it exists) on the horses yesterday: Carlise 1.55 winner - Lady Ibrox Redcar 2.15 winner - Lucky Lodge Towcester 2.20 winner - True Blue An accumulator would have had odds of over 160-1 Personally I'm glad they didn't as I suspect they'd have diverted it to a war chest and not the creditors as is their remit OI....STOP NICKING MY POSTS...LOL (AS POSTED LAST NIGHT) Chasbo could have cleared Rankers debts in full, in the space of 30 minutes this afternoon with a £1,000,000 treble on these three!!! http://www.attherace...te=&nav=results http://www.attherace...ker&nav=results http://www.attherace...te=&nav=results Edited June 5, 2012 by Sting777 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 only saw links to pt1 , so heres the full thing of chic v traynor btws 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I see the point and I agree with what you are saying, but the real benefit of the SPL over the First Division is not in matches against the OF. Compare and contrast your lowest home crowd in the SPL with your lowest in the First Division. Then look at the total crowds through your gates in a league season in Division One against a league season in the SPL. The Motherwell/Hamilton thing, no thanks, it's never been a big draw for Motherwell fans, we'd rather have Airdrie. This. Dunfermline averaged 3,624 - over 18 games - while winning SFL1 in an exciting title race alongside their 2 biggest rivals. Dunfermline averaged 4,799 - over 19 games and I assume with higher/at least equal gate prices - while finishing bottom of a league, without any derbies. And they weren't averaging over 1,000 away supporters more a match. Not only is SPL a higher level, but it's also more attractive to attending fans, and of course carries massively more prizemoney. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Naw I think its more to do with the fuckwits that can't handle their drink and cause mayhem than the thought of costs due to increasing security numbers. THIS ^^^^^ is absolutely correct. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyarabnuts Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Just seen on the beeb news that the queen had a lunch in westminster hall,on the menu was scottish salmon and welsh Lamb, Hope it was of the succulent variety 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wokcomble Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Caught up yesterday with someone who is quite closely involved with the Scottish Government. Not for me any succulent lamb washed down Chateau Sir David, more a cup of coffee. Discussed the Rangers situation. And the response was not a million miles away from the majority of P&B posters. 1. The behaviour of Rangers as a business, and a high profile Scottish one, it totally unacceptable. The risk of a perception being created that Scottish business are incompetent, or downright devious is not an image the Government wants to see given any mileage. So on a business level Rangers must be hit hard. And the Sco Gov can make its views known to police forces where they want to see a positive outcome where there has been illegal and fraudulent behaviour. 2. On the footballing front, the same. Football is important to the Government on a number of counts. The Sco Gov has earmarked football as the 'national' sport with all that that means. They have had initiatives such as 'Citizenship through football', using football to engage with those who can't read, educate punters about socially acceptable behaviour, and eliminate bigotry, and many more aims. A lot (an awful lot) of public money has gone into such projects, some going to the charities setup by the SPL and their member clubs. It is essential to have a clean sport, so they can work with it in the future through these and other programmes. So again essential the SFA and SPL deal with the many issues that have surfaced. The accept it is too late to clean up Rangers but they want a shot fired across the bows of every other club to sort themselves out. If not, they will make sure their money and funding from others such as the Lottery will not go in their direction. So in essence whatever it takes to get a clean sport, and if it means clubs dying that is a price worth paying. 3. They are not happy about the past behaviour of the people who ran Rangers. They are even less impressed with some the characters trying to get hold of the club. They do not want 'people like that' being involved in any club in Scotland. So work is going on to create something enforceable with teeth. 4. The doomsday scenario if (or when) Rangers are closed down, even just for one year. They have looked at potential social unrest consequences, and ready to deal with it. On the streets and online. This was just a very general discussion. They have also looked at the implications of a walk away by supporters if a Rangers Newco gets waved into the SPL. They see that as a bigger threat than Rangers being closed down for a number of reasons (which I didn't get detail of). 5. Supporter involvement in running clubs. Yes they want to see more of this, but in a meaningful way. The assets of the clubs are important (grounds etc) as if these are sold for short term gain then clubs very often struggle afterwards, and very often the driving force for dodgy characters getting involved with clubs. So they are looking at something that protects the assets from fly boys and asset strippers. Clubs must be run in a sustainable manner. 6. While they cannot get involved directly in football decisions, they will act to communicate positively the views of the vast majority of the population of Scotland directly to the decision makers. Football decisions these days are about more than football. So in summary, 1. We (the the Scottish Government) all need to know the full story about Rangers and what went wrong, when and who was responsible. 2. Punishments must be severe and public, to send out a positive message to Scotland, the UK and beyond. 3. We (Scottish Government) must make sure it never happens again. While I agree with the majority of the above, I have tried to avoid putting my spin on it. Time will tell whether they see it through. But one comment was that if this is not dealt with properly and cleanly, then Scottish football will be a meaningless, corrupt irrelevance. EXCELLENT NEWS - there are many fans of provincial clubs involved at Government level in Scotland, and quite a few high-profile politicians have attended Supporters Direct seminars over the past 7/8 years, so it seems some have indeed got their fingers on the pulse and taken the S/D message of honesty, clarity, financial prudence, etc etc on board. Tnanks for taking the time to post all that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz FFC Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Will they go down the "Club X" route again? There are a few clubs who could potentially find themselves in a different league to the one they expected to be in. It's one thing budgeting and building a team for a promotion push. It's another entirely to prepare to try to avoid relegation. When are they to be informed? Thank you. If you look back about 600 pages (kidding) you will see i said the same thing. This needs a deadline, mostly for Dundee, but also for Airdrie and Stranraer. These 3 clubs are preparing to play in a league they may not be in. At the moment all 3 missed on promotion by the smallest margin in the league and will probably fancy themselves this season. If they are promoted in lets say July, they all of a sudden need a team that is good enough to stay up with what budget they have left. Totally unfair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 You know, the same thought occured to me, as I was typing that last post! Either Green is super-confident the CVA is going through, knows something we dont or he simply doesnt care I'd go with Greenback is super confident the CVA will fail and he buys the liquidated assets for a song and the SFA are bending over backwards to accommodate him with a parachute for his new shiny club with minimal punishments by claiming the newco is not the old co and get voted into the SPL so the fatcats in the establishment SPL/SFA get their TV bonuses for saving the SKY deal !. The BTC and dual contracts will surely kill of the Rankers as they are and all the goings on behind closed doors are to make sure the newco enters the SPL at any cost plus a slap on the wrist for them.I'd assume 3 years out of Europe,20 pint deduction ? and loss of 75% of TV revenue for 2 years would give Greenback enough time to sort out the newco financially in time to enter European competition " assuming they return as a force" as the newco would struggle with an immediate entry into the SPL ! lack of funds or investment if the mass exodus prevails with their top players leaving this summer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 quite correct.....Himmler committed suicide by cyanide shortly after his capture by the Allied Forces. In fairness, Nuremburg descended into a bit of a farce as although the Defendants were guilty of genocide on an industrial scale, the Plaintiff's had been guilty of vaporizing over 500,000 civilians in the Worlds first Atomic bomb attack. I know........... Not to mention the Soviet regime having murdered more people than the Nazis. Talk about hypocrisy ... Borys 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 This. Dunfermline averaged 3,624 - over 18 games - while winning SFL1 in an exciting title race alongside their 2 biggest rivals. Dunfermline averaged 4,799 - over 19 games and I assume with higher/at least equal gate prices - while finishing bottom of a league, without any derbies. And they weren't averaging over 1,000 away supporters more a match. Not only is SPL a higher level, but it's also more attractive to attending fans, and of course carries massively more prizemoney. The comparison is valid in that it invoves two adjacent seasons. What this also means however is that the SPL season was their first following a very successful campaign. Season ticket sales must have been good during the previous close season. Had they endured a couple of 10th place finishes before the relegation one, the picture might have been a little different. Anyway, the point's kind of redundant. Of course, gates tend to be higher at a higher level. This truth doesn't dilute the fact that Scotland could still have a game without Rangers. Most top flight clubs would have less money without them. Some might have smaller crowds. However the pluses in terms of losing such a malevolent presence, increasing competition and retaining a sliver of integrity, easily outweigh such negatives for me. The crux of this is really to do with how many see things the same way; and how many don't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 1338915512[/url]' post='6305182']Thank you. If you look back about 600 pages (kidding) you will see i said the same thing. This needs a deadline, mostly for Dundee, but also for Airdrie and Stranraer. These 3 clubs are preparing to play in a league they may not be in. At the moment all 3 missed on promotion by the smallest margin in the league and will probably fancy themselves this season. If they are promoted in lets say July, they all of a sudden need a team that is good enough to stay up with what budget they have left. Totally unfair. Stranraer in particular will have a fair bit hanging on this. They were really gutted at not going up and thus sharing a league with QoS and Ayr. These 4 home games would have given them some decent gates and probably drawn far more casual punters than any 3rd division side. There's also the question of players who old have re- signed had they gone up, but may have moved on elsewhere by now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadInfluence Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 OI....STOP NICKING MY POSTS...LOL (AS POSTED LAST NIGHT) Chasbo could have cleared Rankers debts in full, in the space of 30 minutes this afternoon with a £1,000,000 treble on these three!!! http://www.attherace...te=&nav=results Sorry hadn't noticed that one - there are so many posts it's difficult to keep up http://www.attherace...ker&nav=results http://www.attherace...te=&nav=results 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I'd go with Greenback is super confident the CVA will fail and he buys the liquidated assets for a song and the SFA are bending over backwards to accommodate him with a parachute for his new shiny club with minimal punishments by claiming the newco is not the old co and get voted into the SPL so the fatcats in the establishment SPL/SFA get their TV bonuses for saving the SKY deal !. The BTC and dual contracts will surely kill of the Rankers as they are and all the goings on behind closed doors are to make sure the newco enters the SPL at any cost plus a slap on the wrist for them.I'd assume 3 years out of Europe,20 pint deduction ? and loss of 75% of TV revenue for 2 years would give Greenback enough time to sort out the newco financially in time to enter European competition " assuming they return as a force" as the newco would struggle with an immediate entry into the SPL ! lack of funds or investment if the mass exodus prevails with their top players leaving this summer. Not good enough.........as said previously, if this happens Scottish football can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned and I don't think I'm on my own in that sentiment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spain Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I'd assume 3 years out of Europe,20 pint deduction ? and loss of 75% of TV revenue for 2 years would give Greenback enough time to sort out the newco financially in time to enter European competition " assuming they return as a force" as the newco would struggle with an immediate entry into the SPL ! Dibs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Not to mention the Soviet regime having murdered more people than the Nazis. Talk about hypocrisy ... Borys Absolutely......good old Stalin loved a purge ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunfellaff Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Not to mention the Soviet regime having murdered more people than the Nazis. Talk about hypocrisy ... Borys Agreed, and he got a red dot for it Interestingly Tojo was going for the War Crimes, tried to shoot himself in the heart and missed, the yanks saved him so he could hang. Whilst waiting, they fitted him with new dentures (why?) and wrote ''Remember Pearl Harbour'' in morse code on them. Wankers. Though, this is like a newco getting a stadium with every SFA affiliated clubs scarfes embedded in the foundation with ''Remember the cheating'' on all of them. Which would be sound! Apart from the newco bit. Let them die. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 No mention of the FIFA statement to the BBC? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P45 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 No mention of the FIFA statement to the BBC? The one last week? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunfellaff Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I'm playing online poker at the mo, and one of the oppo is 'Gers1964' , I sooooooooo wan't to bust him. Its on PaddyP as well, thought they would be off limits 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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