Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Loonytoons]

LNS verdict was final, no going back.

Ah, double jeopardy. Things change, Scots Law did away with that a wee while ago.

"Changed tack", a nautical term.

Sevco hoping it wont stick like it did to Oldco, presumably.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

Somewhat telling that the tact has shifted from "we never did anything wrong" to "the LNS decision is final and cannot be changed" from some...

[Romeo]

No Ifs, no buts?

No coconuts.

[Monkey Tennis]

Somewhat telling that the tact has shifted from "we never did anything wrong" to "the LNS decision is final and cannot be changed" from some...

Yes, that is pretty much how it's played out.

Unfortunately, this final bit of wreckage that they've chosen to cling to as everything else has gone under, will I think, keep them afloat.

[Monkey Tennis]

I was sure that they changed tact, I'll have search tomorrow for it.

I remember the former employees interview (not his name) the guy had dementia and that ch4 guy was correcting his answers and putting words in his mouth.

I've not seen that interview. I just remember reading that he'd sort of blown the whistle on the issue of side letters and the potential significance of it in terms of player registration.

It doesn't much matter if he was struggling and led in a later interview. What he flagged up left Rangers with a clear case to answer.

PS No great surprise to see the difficulty with "tact". Didn't I have a go at you for poor manners, just the other day?

[aDONisSheep]

IIRC the side letters came out during the Boumsong (sp) to Newcastle saga?

I could be wrong though.

Yours

aDONis

Edited November 14, 2015 by aDONisSheep

[Monkey Tennis]

IIRC the side letters came out during the Boumsong (sp) to Newcastle saga?

I could be wrong though.

Yours

aDONis

I do remember later reading that Boumsong and his agent had queried the arrangement as they'd never seen anything quite like it before and they felt it looked dodgy.

The only other one to really speak out that I'm aware of is Billy Dodds. As a regular Sportsound pundit, I don't think he could stay under the desk forever when the topic was discussed. He eventually consented to being asked about it and said quite clearly that the payments were his wages, and that he didn't concern himself with the detail as this was agent territory.

For me the most telling one was a foreign player highlighted by Mark Daly - Sasa Papac perhaps?

In his case, some relatively lowly administrative figure at Ibrox questioned what appeared on paper to be an unusually low wage, asking if the large shortfall was being made up via EBT. The answer that came back from on high was that this was indeed the case.

These things were what made the FTTT decision back in 2012 so unpalatable. The recent role given to "common sense" should be welcomed.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Monkey Tennis

[Ken Fitlike]

Somewhat telling that the tact has shifted from "we never did anything wrong" to "the LNS decision is final and cannot be changed" from some...

So it's now 'so course we cheated. Everybody knows we cheated. But somebody previously made a dodgy decision that we gained no sporting advantage. So it is now impossible to remove the titles in question in case it rips the space / time continuium or something'

Seriously how can something as flawed as the ludicrous LNS verdict not be looked at again?

[Monkey Tennis]

So it's now 'so course we cheated. Everybody knows we cheated. But somebody previously made a dodgy decision that we gained no sporting advantage. So it is now impossible to remove the titles in question in case it rips the space / time continuium or something'

Seriously how can something as flawed as the ludicrous LNS verdict not be looked at again?

I don't think there's sufficient will to look at it again.

Obviously, the authorities don't wish to, for all the reasons we're familiar with.

There's also a different attitude among fans this time, meaning that other clubs needn't bother too much either.

You only need to look at the thread about it on the Premier League forum on here, to see that most people can no longer be arsed with this. It really is left to we obsessives to fight the good fight.

It's a similar thing with the media. The Daily Record has mounted a campaign, by pretending that this is about giving medals to players who lost cup finals. We've had the Telegraph inventing worried chairmen of other clubs who think they'd need to fork out bonuses.

Even Sportsound which has given the issue attention, has had good guys like Tom English and Richard Gordon referring to their boredom with it, while an ignorant fool like Roger Mitchell is given a platform and no challenge.

This will blow over and Rangers will keep their titles.

The game we love will have been ill served.

[printer]

my sympathies on the BRALT still lie with the Rangers fans who are sticking by their club.

You soft b******d.

[Fife Saint]

"Changed tack", a nautical term.

Fairly relevant for a sinking ship.

[Njord]

So it's now 'so course we cheated. Everybody knows we cheated. But somebody previously made a dodgy decision that we gained no sporting advantage. So it is now impossible to remove the titles in question in case it rips the space / time continuium or something'

Seriously how can something as flawed as the ludicrous LNS verdict not be looked at again?

I'm unsure how he got the gig anyways, he had retired a few years earlier. And he wasn't a Law Lord was he??

(Probably he got paid by ebt for it , electronic bank transfer if you're looking in m'lud).

[TheLip69]

You soft b******d.

There's only one 'r' in b#####d

[mythstoliveby]

I don't think there's sufficient will to look at it again. Obviously, the authorities don't wish to, for all the reasons we're familiar with. There's also a different attitude among fans this time, meaning that other clubs needn't bother too much either. You only need to look at the thread about it on the Premier League forum on here, to see that most people can no longer be arsed with this. It really is left to we obsessives to fight the good fight. It's a similar thing with the media. The Daily Record has mounted a campaign, by pretending that this is about giving medals to players who lost cup finals. We've had the Telegraph inventing worried chairmen of other clubs who think they'd need to fork out bonuses. Even Sportsound which has given the issue attention, has had good guys like Tom English and Richard Gordon referring to their boredom with it, while an ignorant fool like Roger Mitchell is given a platform and no challenge. This will blow over and Rangers will keep their titles. The game we love will have been ill served.

Yes, only in Scotland! (well maybe in Russia too - although I'm not sure that even they would stoop to such corrupt levels....)

[Njord]

There's only one 'r' in b#####d

But there's no 'f' in 'rangers'

[jim999]

I don't think there's sufficient will to look at it again.Obviously, the authorities don't wish to, for all the reasons we're familiar with.There's also a different attitude among fans this time, meaning that other clubs needn't bother too much either.You only need to look at the thread about it on the Premier League forum on here, to see that most people can no longer be arsed with this. It really is left to we obsessives to fight the good fight.It's a similar thing with the media. The Daily Record has mounted a campaign, by pretending that this is about giving medals to players who lost cup finals. We've had the Telegraph inventing worried chairmen of other clubs who think they'd need to fork out bonuses.Even Sportsound which has given the issue attention, has had good guys like Tom English and Richard Gordon referring to their boredom with it, while an ignorant fool like Roger Mitchell is given a platform and no challenge.This will blow over and Rangers will keep their titles. The game we love will have been ill served.

I am pretty sure the SFA, a lot of club's board members, media guys etc want the whole thing to just blow over. Some of this will be out of personal fear from halfwits but mainly the hope for them will be that fans and in the main, supposed "keyboard warriors" will get bored and shrug then go back to paying for football as they have done for years. They just want the old firm back and f**k the other teams.

For me it goes to show the contempt folk who run our game, comment on our game and make a living from our game have for the fan.

The wee arsehole Roger Mitchell dismissed the notion out of hand that some fans might just think that they've been conned. He started babbling on with some what about Russia type shite.

There is a chance if nothing happens fans of other clubs might just say "f**k this, I'm out" doing damage to their own club and the game itself.

I do feel sorry for some Rangers fans and I get why some on here are clinging to any small technical reason to back their club(s) but the fact remains Rangers behaviour reeked and everyone not connected to them knows in any other sport, anywhere in the world then stripping of wins would be a certainty.

I've played in Junior and amateur sides where teams have been docked 3 points for a wrong address on a signing form as the player was then apparently incorrectly registered but then it's easy coming down hard on lads just wanting a game.

[Monkey Tennis]

In every sport all over world, cheating means the removal of honours won. There's no debate about the possible effect of the cheating, or whether the athlete/team would've won without the cheating. As soon as evidence of cheating is uncovered, the honours are removed, no ifs or buts. Cheating = the opposite of sport.

That's except for viewers in Scotland.

I pretty much agree. Cracking last line by the way.

The difficulty however, is establishing that what happened, amounted to cheating. I think it can be classed that way as players were deliberately registered in deceitful terms, as Rangers wished to mask a payment scheme that if exposed might well present them with a tax bill that would undoubtedly see the club liquidated.

I don't think that such a conclusion is necessarily entirely obvious or automatic though. The focus needs to be on registration. If it's on spending beyond means for success, Rangers are not alone.

The fact that LNS has already addressed registration in an apparently binding way, is a problem.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Monkey Tennis

[beermonkey]

I am pretty sure the SFA, a lot of club's board members, media guys etc want the whole thing to just blow over. Some of this will be out of personal fear from halfwits but mainly the hope for them will be that fans and in the main, supposed "keyboard warriors" will get bored and shrug then go back to paying for football as they have done for years. They just want the old firm back and f**k the other teams.

For me it goes to show the contempt folk who run our game, comment on our game and make a living from our game have for the fan.

The wee arsehole Roger Mitchell dismissed the notion out of hand that some fans might just think that they've been conned. He started babbling on with some what about Russia type shite.

There is a chance if nothing happens fans of other clubs might just say "f**k this, I'm out" doing damage to their own club and the game itself.

I do feel sorry for some Rangers fans and I get why some on here are clinging to any small technical reason to back their club(s) but the fact remains Rangers behaviour reeked and everyone not connected to them knows in any other sport, anywhere in the world then stripping of wins would be a certainty.

I've played in Junior and amateur sides where teams have been docked 3 points for a wrong address on a signing form as the player was then apparently incorrectly registered but then it's easy coming down hard on lads just wanting a game.

I said this 3 years ago, i haven't been to a game since, i also know of 2 others who've done the same.

But....As long as folk are turning up week in-week out at most grounds, then f**k-all will ever change in scottish football.

[Monkey Tennis]

I am pretty sure the SFA, a lot of club's board members, media guys etc want the whole thing to just blow over. Some of this will be out of personal fear from halfwits but mainly the hope for them will be that fans and in the main, supposed "keyboard warriors" will get bored and shrug then go back to paying for football as they have done for years. They just want the old firm back and f**k the other teams.

For me it goes to show the contempt folk who run our game, comment on our game and make a living from our game have for the fan.

The wee arsehole Roger Mitchell dismissed the notion out of hand that some fans might just think that they've been conned. He started babbling on with some what about Russia type shite.

There is a chance if nothing happens fans of other clubs might just say "f**k this, I'm out" doing damage to their own club and the game itself.

I do feel sorry for some Rangers fans and I get why some on here are clinging to any small technical reason to back their club(s) but the fact remains Rangers behaviour reeked and everyone not connected to them knows in any other sport, anywhere in the world then stripping of wins would be a certainty.

I've played in Junior and amateur sides where teams have been docked 3 points for a wrong address on a signing form as the player was then apparently incorrectly registered but then it's easy coming down hard on lads just wanting a game.

Yes, there is an absolute contempt towards supporters.

I think a massive part of it is how OF centric our game became in the last twenty years. The narrative emerged as they won all the trophies between them and got big crowds, that this was the only way our game could really function. Those clubs became seen as central to generating money. The fact that they got to keep all that money became lost amidst a self serving belief that what suited the OF, must via some trickle down, be good for the rest of us.

This narrative is now so rooted that for the depressingly large numbers who follow OF clubs and for the many who give such matters little independent thought, it's become a received truth that things will be better when the duopoly returns.

You're also right about how seriously player registration issues are traditionally treated in our game. The variance now evident in the treatment of different clubs for different offences is now patently absurd.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Monkey Tennis

[Insaintee]

I pretty much agree. Cracking last line by the way.

The difficulty however, is establishing that what happened, amounted to cheating. I think it can be classed that way as players were deliberately registered in deceitful terms, as Rangers wished to mask a payment scheme that if exposed might well present them with a tax bill that would undoubtedly see the club liquidated.

I don't think that such a conclusion is necessarily entirely obvious or automatic though. The focus needs to be on registration. If it's on spending beyond means for success, Rangers are not alone.

The fact that LNS has already addressed registration in an apparently binding way, is a problem.

Binding on who? Who agreed that it was binding and final? The SFA executive decided when the chairman had an EBT it was final and can undecide. The SFA may not have been able to make that decision anyway without consultation with it's members.

I don't think the SFA should be crowing to loudly about what it "decided"