Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[ayrmad]

May get a bunch of reds for this but I don't see why the fact 1 director held 0.00047% of shares in a liquidating company which moved property/TUPE'd employees to another company that's applying to join SFL, should prevent Berwick Rangers voting on it.

It shouldn't, but surely a board member of club A shouldn't hold shares in a living club B, morally wrong.

Edited July 10, 2012 by ayrmad

[HibeeJibee]

Presumably there's a moral conflict of interest, if not a legal one. People don't buy shares in football clubs to make money - I have shares in Falkirk (I admit there is a difference as they're not publicly traded) but it's for sentimentality and a way of giving some more cash to the club. It's therefore not unreasonable to assume that there is quite the likelihood that this director bought shares in Rangers because he's a fan.

I appreciate the point but immediately I see 3 problems: firstly, being a fan of 1 club but involved in another isn't proscribed. Secondly, people could be fans even without holding shares. Thirdly, 1 man doesn't automatically equate to the football club.

[Fasda]

Presumably there's a moral conflict of interest, if not a legal one. People don't buy shares in football clubs to make money - I have shares in Falkirk (I admit there is a difference as they're not publicly traded) but it's for sentimentality and a way of giving some more cash to the club. It's therefore not unreasonable to assume that there is quite the likelihood that this director bought shares in Rangers because he's a fan.

You would declare that fact before a vote...it's a governance requirement everywhere. Doesn't mean you don't get to vote, in fact it is the proper way to own shares in a potential conflict of interest and still vote/participate. All these guys are directors, they know the protocol, they are taking the piss.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Fasda

[TheTaxMan]

If I had a table for teams I like to see win in the SPL, St. Mirren would top it. All sense of rivalry is gone for me and has been replaced by the opposite feeling of fondness.

Nice to see a wee love in between rivals, next thing you know there will be Ayr fans posting that they have always secretly admired Killie or sevco fans posting that they are delighted that the bunnet was able to leave Celtic in such a good position.

[Guest Flash]

May get a bunch of reds for this but I don't see why the fact 1 director held 0.00047% of shares in a liquidating company which moved property/TUPE'd employees to another company that's applying to join SFL, should prevent Berwick Rangers voting on it.

What if the director owned zero shares in "old" Rangers but had a season ticket and/or a coporate hospitality box. Would that also demonstrate no vested interest?

[pozbaird]

I appreciate the point but immediately I see 3 problems: firstly, being a fan of 1 club but involved in another isn't proscribed. Secondly, people could be fans even without holding shares. Thirdly, 1 man doesn't automatically equate to the football club.

It does if it's Craig Whyte and Rangers though.

[Guest Pampered Adolescent]

You make a few good points there. I appreciate the feeling of Rangers fans is that they have been punished enough and what else could be done to them. The fact that they will not be involved in a title race for the short to medium term is a huge punishment to the real, honest, footballing Rangers fans.

Could you please elaborate on the third sentence? (I have left the others in for context).

I lived in Switzerland for four years and despite the large fanbases of Basel and the two Zurich clubs, four provincial clubs (Aarau, Sion, St Gallen and Servette) won the league between 1993 and 2000. I just don't see any relationship that Zombie Rangers should be challenging for anything, especially when one considers the Oldco attendances of around 10,000 in the 1980s, as reported elsewhere in this thread.

Replace 'punishment' with 'disappointment' and I would agree. Do I believe 'real, honest, footballing Rangers fans' have been shafted? Yes. Do I agree with the rest of your post- of course I do.

Maybe I am being picky, however facts are that Denmark (population ~ Scotland; 5.5 million) won Euro 1992 having not qualified for it, and China, despite a population of ~ 1.4 billion, has an atrocious international record so far.

And which SPL club, second closest to Glasgow, and seventh highest attendance, finished third in the SPL last season?

To suggest Rangers fans have been 'hugely punished' infers that they (Zombie) actually deserve something merely by their existence, something that the Glasgow media has been spouting all my life and especially since February this year..... not to mention the Scottish football authorities also hopping on that bandwagon in recent weeks.....

Regards

PA

[Fasda]

Nice to see a wee love in between rivals, next thing you know there will be Ayr fans posting that they have always secretly admired Killie or sevco fans posting that they are delighted that the bunnet was able to leave Celtic in such a good position.

Their wee forum vote on who they'd like to see liquidated next had AFC and Dundee Utd way out front and Celtic not mentioned. Kinda cute really, fine line between love and hate and all that.

[TheTaxMan]

May get a bunch of reds for this but I don't see why the fact 1 director held 0.00047% of shares in a liquidating company which moved property/TUPE'd employees to another company that's applying to join SFL, should prevent Berwick Rangers voting on it.

Balanced out your first red with a Charlie, I agree with you, every chance some of the directors of some of the clubs also hold Celtic shares, is that a conflict of interests too?

[cyderspaceman]

Googled Spartans................I'm not sure............................

Spartan men are required to marry at age 20, after completing the Krypteia. Plutarch reports the peculiar customs associated with the Spartan wedding night:

The custom is to capture women for marriage at away games. The so-called 'bridesmaid' took charge of the captured girl. She first shaved her head to the scalp, then dressed her in a man's cloak and sandals, and laid her down alone on a mattress in the dark. The bridegroom – who was not drunk and thus not impotent, but was sober as always – first had a pie and bovril in the messes, then would slip in, undo her belt, lift her and carry her to the bed.

The husband continued to visit his wife, and your wife in secret ,for some time after the marriage. These customs, unique to the Spartans, have been interpreted in various ways. The "abduction" may have served to ward off the evil eye, and the cutting of the wife's hair was perhaps part of a rite of passage that signalled her entrance into a new life.

Do we really want these violent, warmongering, spooky misogynists in the 3rd?

They sound worse than the hvns.

Getting some banter ready, just in case.

eta spolling errer

Edited July 10, 2012 by cyderspaceman

[Inverton]

I'm Dougie Rae

[Broccoli Dog]

I hope Morton go bust, I shall dance on their grave dressed as Catman.

[ankles]

no one should get upset anymore .Whenever you hear,see or talk to anyone trying to justify any this Sevco pish, just try to imagine your the wee "I see dead people " boy from the " Sixth Sense " film and your having to listen to Bruce Willis spouting one pile of pish cos he doesn't realise he's deid.

[TheLip69]

If you really have dreamed of winning the league than that is just delusional. St. Mirren will likely never win the league, I honestly don't give a shit.

And unlike many here I won't abandon my team because a decision is made out of their hands. Fans really are utterly ridiculous at times.

I started supporting Motherwell the year Kilmarnock won the league, so it was hardly delusional that I would dream of Motherwell doing it one day.

I am not abandoning my team, I'm abandoning the corrupt entity that is Scottish football.

[Fasda]

What if the director owned zero shares in "old" Rangers but had a season ticket and/or a coporate hospitality box. Would that also demonstrate no vested interest?

I don't think so, but I would declare it anyway; I have actually declared shares in a competitor company at a board meeting, it's not difficult! It's basic governance on any board.

[TheTaxMan]

Their wee forum vote on who they'd like to see liquidated next had AFC and Dundee Utd way out front and Celtic not mentioned. Kinda cute really, fine line between love and hate and all that.

Aye the ones I know tend to hate your mob more than they hate us, Dundee Hibernians are not their favourites either.

[ayrmad]

You would declare that fact before a vote...it's a governance requirement everywhere. Doesn't mean you don't get to vote, in fact it is the proper way to own shares in a potential conflict of interest and still vote/participate. All these guys are directors, they know the protocol, they are taking the piss.

What if governance isn't followed?

One of the main movers n shakers in Livi's demotion had already sold his shares in an SFL team, he could not have declared that or he'd have been removed from his position.

Edited July 10, 2012 by ayrmad

[TheLip69]

I got a bank charge the other day, was my fault you know. See I completely messed up my budget but now I guess I'll have to pay the fine and just get on with it. Shame I'm not a football club then I could just blame Rangers...

I know what you're thinking, here's another bear with a chip on his shoulder. Well it's not true. Rangers messed up monumentally, they stiffed the tax man (strange how many denizens of parkhead suddenly care about the queens bank balance) they stiffed other football clubs they stiffed small businesses and they eventually went down in a blaze of arrogance one news of the world phone hacker was said to have described as "a bit dis-tasteful".

Since February everybody's had their pound of flesh and oh boy what a party it's been. In the beginning it was fair and the criticism which flowed was justified but fuelled by lashings of pent up anger / jealously / self-righteousness all and sundry have had their say, one hundred years of hatred and envy has poured forth. No critisim is too much, no ancient slight or percived controversial loss has been left un-avenged and truly the mob has spoken. Rangers must be punished. Then again. then again. then again. Repeat until bored.

Sporting integrity is the new black (or should I say Japanese tour grey...). That fantastic little phrase © Lawwell '08 has made a comeback in a major way. Rangers we are told must not be allowed to darken the SPL's hallowed turf / sand again; they must be cast asunder and taught a lesson. And do you know what? I agree; we knew the rules because we bloody helped make them. We were part of the cabal and ran it arrogantly for our own means for far too long forgetting that one day even the mighty might just need a friend. We built a castle on sand and when it collapsed we should pay the price, no bailout for "the establishment".

But now the pygmies have spoken. Every no mark supporters group has had their say and "people power" has rescued the Scottish game, for after all what is the SPL without its integrity? Well pretty much the same as it is now. It's a flawed broken product were teams can play 18, 19 or 20 games home or away each season. Where Falkirk can't get in with a new ground being built but Gretna can swan in and ground share a swimming pool. Where special dispensation cannot be given to clubs to solve a fixture crisis but can Gretna can play Celtic at Almond vale. Where chairman speak of punishing Rangers for their fiscal failures while presiding over £33 million of debt.

But with those big nasty bigots from Govan the spl is going to thrive. Blue chip sponsors will rush to buy into the new super competitive league were any one of half a dozen teams can come second to Celtic! Sky will no doubt cancel super Sunday to broadcast Dundee vs. Ross County from a packed Dens park as families have picnics outside the new sectarian free grounds of the spl. Everybody will hold hands and sing when hopefully in a few years Rangers will gain a place in this footballing Utopia. Maybe that day will coincide with Rooney signing on at Aberdeen citing "pure financial greed" as the motivation for his move to the best league in the world?

I'd at least have respect for any fans group who simply said "yeah we just want to stick it to the Rangers" instead of hiding behind clichéd phrases. But what of this sporting integrity? Surely it should be followed through to the last and most Rangers fans agree. Apparently we only want to go to the third division to see others in financial trouble, it's awfully good when people tell you what you are thinking isn't it? For me and many others that is not the case, we want to go to the third division to start again, to build anew. We want to build bridges and if not forget the past then at least be given a chance to put it behind us. We have been punished more severely than others already (just how many points did Motherwell get docked?), but for some no punishment is enough. The twitching corpse must be flogged until it bleeds no more.

We do not want any parachute into the first division and it is being forced upon us by the self-same chairmen who proclaimed that sporting integrity has no price. Well apparently it does and its roughly £1 million a year plus play offs. But again this isn't the case, it's all being done to help the Rangers, the hibs fans know this for a fact. Perhaps one of them should ask their chairman why he's the main architect of the plan.

Scottish football is in a dire state but nobody really seems to care, its all Rangers fault anyway. The reformation of the game should not be tacked onto the demise and rehabilitation of rangers. It is an issue in its own right and a far more important issue at that. There will hopefully always be Rangers, a St Mirren, Kilmarnock and Dundee united too. Scotland's needs football, healthy competitive football because its woven into the very fabric of our society.

Right now the baws burst but instead of fixing the puncture people are hell bent on picking the seam...

Because the baw was corrupted, we're looking to get a bigger, better, baw and you're no getting a game.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

May get a bunch of reds for this but I don't see why the fact 1 director held 0.00047% of shares in a liquidating company which moved property/TUPE'd employees to another company that's applying to join SFL, should prevent Berwick Rangers voting on it.

Have a greenie*

*If I find out that it's 0.00046% or 0.00048% I'll be forced to make amends later

[Huistrinho]

"Sporting merit" should come first when it comes to deciding which league Rangers play in next season, according to FIFA.

The world football governing body say they will not intervene on the matter if Charles Green's new company gain immediate access to the First Division and bypass two tiers of the Scottish Football League, saying the final decision is for the Scottish FA to make.

http://sport.stv.tv/...placement-vote/