MarreZ Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Umm 15 -20 million from st seems unlikely when they've only sold a thousand odd reportedly...I actually think the issue of working capital is more pressing than embargoes title stripping etc...if the sfa licence them without definitive proof that they can fulfill fixtures then it will be an act of gross negligence. I know the rules re audited accounts are discretionary but this is a case where the financials should be thoroughly examined as a matter or priority. I was basing it on a best case scenario really for them, anyone you speak to says they are buying a season ticket to support them, whether they do or not is another matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Buddie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Sevco are selling adult STs for about the same price as their website shows the cost of a single match in the Thornton Suite corporate hospitality. Their website is advertising £235 pp for an SPL match. Someone needs to have a word... The Thornton Suite.....that reminds me, Bill Thornton was a Director of Burn Stewart, who make Scottish Leader whisky, the Ibrox Big Hoose brand. He was a previous sugar daddy, and, a bit like Minty, put his company's money into RFC when they were struggling financially ( see a pattern developing here? ) £4 million, I believe, which BS could not afford, and as far as I know, never got back. Nearly bust BS, and they had to put the previously private company up for sale. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagmaster Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Aye, she's cracking. Loving every minute. Star n Garter pre match on the 11th? Congrats. I have a 6 month old son. Can I ask you, do you enjoy your sleep? How's that panning out for you so far? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I was basing it on a best case scenario really for them, anyone you speak to says they are buying a season ticket to support them, whether they do or not is another matter. How many have they sold so far? Can't be many... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Buddie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) I did 50,000 season tickets at an average of 350, since they have a range of season tickets, from about 300 up to 800 +. Sally and his backroom staff will be on 3-400,000 between them all, if not more, not to mention Jardine and the scouts etc - there still is the existing group of players who are still on their old contracts - Bocanegra, Edu and co will all be on over 10k a week. A million a month is a reasonable guestimate for the football related side not included in the running of the club (given that it would be 1/3 to 1/4 of what it used to be, as we were told cutting of 75% -50% on players salary was saving over a million at the start of administration). It'll be interesting around the end of August to see what the final sale of STs will be, I assume that by then there will only be a very few stragglers buying them. How would we find out how many have been sold? Would it require journalistic talent? Or industrial espionage? Edited for fat fingers. Edited July 26, 2012 by Happy Buddie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 A whole thread on RM without the word "tarrier". Could the rehabilitation of the hordes be starting? They never even asked the OP what school he went to! Maybe we have won, after all. Nah, who am I kidding.. My link 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottxs Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 -1 Back to top of the page up there ^ [/url] #7 God Bless The Papac Group:True Blue Topics:31 Posts:2,359 Rep:79 Joined:04-January 07 Gender:Male Location:Bellshill Posted Today, 09:44 AM I thought "The Rangers" was just the name of the new plc - The Rangers FC PLC? The club is still Rangers Football Club. Just a sly dig still not sunk in yet. poor fools 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 How many have they sold so far? Can't be many... So far as anyone can tell, a thousand or so. They still don't have credit card or direct debit facilities available, and a sizeable portion of the most rabid bit of the fan base has been led to believe that any cash handed over to Charles Green will be donated to the IRA or the Mafia or something by Bomber and Leggatt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarreZ Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 How many have they sold so far? Can't be many... Yeah I dunno if they have published them or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 So far as anyone can tell, a thousand or so. They still don't have credit card or direct debit facilities available, and a sizeable portion of the most rabid bit of the fan base has been led to believe that any cash handed over to Charles Green will be donated to the IRA or the Mafia or something by Bomber and Leggatt. That was my thoughts. Once Bomber's £40K is added to the mix, it will be a very different story. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest_Fifer Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Page 3,142... Pi and Bovril? Coat, etc.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Buddie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) The sums don't really seem to add up. - Even if they shift 20,000 STs (optimistic) at approx £300 a pop, that's £6million. - Virtually nothing from the TV deal - Transfer fees? No one left with any real value - Wages? McCulloch, Edu, Wallace etc still there, and still on big wages. - The rest of the squad, even the dross/kids will still be on at least £500 a week - Green still hasn't named his backers so little or no working capital, and unlikely to get anywhere with compo claims re the players who left - Ibrox/Murray Park - Is a million a month to run right? Even if it's half that, you're talking £4-5million over the season. Plus I'm sure I read somewhere that Ibrox needs some repair work carried out - Absolutely no chance of significant income (other than STs) for at least 3-4 years - We've not even got into the EBT, BTC conclusions yet, and also a police investigation into the takeover. - The Sevco support still seems split into factions, one of which is with "Bomber" Brown's insistence not to financially support Green. How the f**k are they going to survive unless Green sells the whole shebang to someone that doesn't mind tossing away £40-50million before they ven get european football? Even then, once they get to the top division, to be competitive, they're going to have to punt the dross that got them there and spend big to even hope to match Celtic. I don't know whether Green has some ingenious plot up his sleeve, or he made a number of really dumb assumptions throughout this process and he's now been left in the Wile E Coyote role of holding the ACME bomb with the very short fuse. I'm quite disappointed Spartans or someone hadn't at least put in a note of interest. It would at least have made the powers-that-be make a decision between the likely Sevco financial clusterfuck in the near future, or a good, well run wee but ambitious club with stable finances. There's a fucking lot still to happen here. And plenty of amusement to be had... Which is why the Livi-style bond was discussed on this thread a while back. The more we bandy these numbers around, the more likely it looks as if they will struggle very badly financially, even if Brian the Bob sticks his £5.6 million-worth of shillings in, that's only a few weeks worth of losses. Edited July 26, 2012 by Happy Buddie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Leitch Loyal Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 A whole thread on RM without the word "tarrier". Could the rehabilitation of the hordes be starting? They never even asked the OP what school he went to! Maybe we have won, after all. Nah, who am I kidding.. My link Sorry to dent your hope - see post #5. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Buddie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Page 3,142... Pi and Bovril? Coat, etc.. This thread does seem to be going round in circles at times, so....... apt, --- no jaiket required. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Coontin's no' your gemme, is it? Did you work for the auld Rangers as an accountant? 20 at 5 grand a week x 4 weeks is 400k. BUT 45000 STs at average of £300 is only £13.5m, so STs vs wages on players alone is -£7.5m pa. Plus as you say £1m per month running. Does that include non-squad wages? Even so that's a loss of c. £20 m per annum to be made up by sponsorship and TV money . Over min of 3 years, £60 million. Aye, the Berrs are gonnae be great when they get into the SPL debt-free. I am also not an accountant, so this is simple primary school arithmetic. Maybe some real accountants (or porn barons) can show us how this can be turned into a profit (No tax loopholes, please) OK, I'll have a go, 20 players at 5k/w ( plus NI contributions don't forget) = more than 5,200,000 pa Upkeep of assets = Im p/m ( don't know where figs come from) = 12,000,000 pa makes outgoings of 17,200,000 plus NI contributions, (mustn't forget those) Income from STs at 300pounds = 13,500,000 (45,000 sold ha ha) Income from telly is, snigger, no' very much. Less than 100K (it seems) Sponsorship 4 million? (haven't a clue) So, incomings 17,500,000: outgoings 17,200,000 (plus NI, don't forget) I see a smallish loss before Sally's wages, backroom staff and other stuff I'm ignorant of. Someone else like to have a go? There will be things I have missed. Pies! Orcs eat a lot of pies. Got to be worth a squillion. Someone with more knowledge could draw up a spreadsheet. Green would probly pinch it! Edited July 26, 2012 by cyderspaceman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) We've all been trying to work out Charles Green's intentions over newco and I wonder if we can read anything into the attitude towards the lack ST sales. I would have thought this is the one thing he would be determined to push; outwith the SFA membership surely securing ST sales must be the highest priority. After all various people have commented on the potential cashflow issues newco must already be facing. Therefore why no concerted campaign? I would have thought something high profile involving McCoist and other heroes of the former 'Rangers' would have been created to counteract Brown, Jardine etc. Is the lack of such a push on ST sales an indication of Green's real intentions or am I just being paranoid? Page 3,142... Pi and Bovril? Coat, etc.. Christ, I must be getting doddery. Looked at this post about three times before I worked it out. Wondered why people were green dotting it! Well done! Edited July 26, 2012 by Granny Danger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimex Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 It really doesn't add up does it. Be interesting to know what sevco sponsors are doing re renegotiating contracts, clearly they would have expected to see their brands showcased in the SPL and CL - not Glebe Park (no offence meant ). Charlie boy must be shitting himself incase the licence gets granted! What odds Team GB play more games than The Rangers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuyahoga Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Coontin's no' your gemme, is it? Did you work for the auld Rangers as an accountant? 20 at 5 grand a week x 4 weeks is 400k. BUT 45000 STs at average of £300 is only £13.5m, so STs vs wages on players alone is -£7.5m pa. Plus as you say £1m per month running. Does that include non-squad wages? Even so that's a loss of c. £20 m per annum to be made up by sponsorship and TV money . Over min of 3 years, £60 million. Aye, the Berrs are gonnae be great when they get into the SPL debt-free. I am also not an accountant, so this is simple primary school arithmetic. Maybe some real accountants (or porn barons) can show us how this can be turned into a profit (No tax loopholes, please) I'm glad you're not an accountant cos coontin's no your strong suit either! (did you multiply 400k x 52 weeks instead of 100k x 52 weeks?) 20 players at average 5 grand a week is £5.2m plus burden = say £5.9m annually. Running costs = £12m annually (I'm assuming this includes all non-squad wages and overheads etc.) STs = £13.5m Before any other income from other ticket sales, sponsorship, t.v., etc. there is a shortfall of only £4.4m. As a shortfall, it's still larger than some SPl club's entire annual turnover! But it's nowhere near as bad as you suggested. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macshimmy Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Page 3,142... Pi and Bovril? Coat, etc.. Back to the topic at hand, Sevco can't play a 3-1-4-2. They don't have two fit strikers. Edited July 26, 2012 by Macshimmy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Buddie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) I'm glad you're not an accountant cos coontin's no your strong suit either! (did you multiply 400k x 52 weeks instead of 100k x 52 weeks?) 20 players at average 5 grand a week is £5.2m plus burden = say £5.9m annually. Running costs = £12m annually (I'm assuming this includes all non-squad wages and overheads etc.) STs = £13.5m Before any other income from other ticket sales, sponsorship, t.v., etc. there is a shortfall of only £4.4m. As a shortfall, it's still larger than some SPl club's entire annual turnover! But it's nowhere near as bad as you suggested. I know, I realised after I'd posted I had added running costs in twice. Still, a good tax dodge, double-invoicing. By your calculations c£4m, by mine (corrected) c£8m, still a lot of money to have to pump in p.a., cos they ain't gonna get credit facilities on the strength of future Champions' League revenues. Edited July 26, 2012 by Happy Buddie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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