Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[HTG]

I really don't think so.

Do you? Really?

Absolutely. You clearly have a different episode in mind so why not elaborate and let people make their own judgement.

Judging by the poorly thought out and badly written tirade he offered up I wouldn't have thought so.

HTG said: "I have no axe to grind with Rangers."

That diminutive, contradictory gem was delivered close to the end of a pejorative onslaught that Spiers himself would have been proud of. Albeit written more coherently.

HTG also thinks The Rangers 'provoked the single most embarassing episode in the history of Scottish football.'

That's conspicuously not true

You are taking small pieces of text in isolation and dropping the context in which they were written. It's a common enough approach when you've not got a sensible argument to make but people can see it for what it was - Rangers, Portsmouth, Leeds Utd - they are all the same to me. They spend far more than they are capable of spending largely to feed the egos of their supporters.

Last season we sold around 36,000 and (so far) we are close to 34,000 for this season. I fear season ticket sales might only be sixteen or seventeen times those of St integrity. It's difficult to know with any degree of certainty prior to sales closing. I have no idea on Falkirk numbers - 500 - 700? 853? 921?

I'll get back to you when the final figures are released. I understand your interest in our greatest if clubs - much appreciated!

This is the source of much of your argument - look how great our supporters are - we've bought thousands of season tickets for a diddy league. Look how big our club is and look how insignificant everyone else is. It might make you feel better but it doesn't make any difference to the rest. Maybe if you'd paid your way in the first place you wouldn't need season tickets for the seaside leagues.

Take a guess. That's a common enough occurrence on P&P when facts aren't convenient.

Do tell.

Oh dear - is there no end to the tediously redundant questions?

That's a belter of a tediously redundant question. As for the original question, what was the answer?

Bendarroch, you're trying hard but you have a poor hand to play. You can skim over the actions of your club (if it is a continuation of the 1872 version) and give us all the nonsense about 34000 season tickets and the diddies being ... well ... diddies. But you can't have it all your own way. Rangers were structured to be better than Celtic at any cost. The cost was so high that your club has twice been sold for a pound. You had to leave at least £50m in unpaid debt - possibly a lot more. Charles Green has got you all dancing to his tune even though he did the same thing that the American fellow was hounded for. How has he done it? Soundbites. Appeal to the Rangers fans sense of injustice and fly at anyone who has a different line. You're doing the same on here but it doesn't work. Rangers as a football club is a complete basket case. For most people who understand the club/company relationship the old Rangers is dead and gone. Green knows it and said it. You coming on here as part of a triumphant return of The Rangers doesn't mean anyone else outside The Rangers family is going to separate the "noble" gesture of the fans to buy season tickets for SFL3 from the behaviour that got them there. Most of us support smaller clubs who strive to get by and pay what they can afford. Your club outspent the rest of Scottish football (with the exception of Celtic) by a country mile. You are already doing so again. Green had the nerve to declare Rangers "debt free". What a model for us all to follow. I'm not that interested in whether you thing the SPL is a joke, St Mirren can't shift season tickets or any of the rest of that stuff you are coming away with to deflect from the actions of your own club. The SPL has been a joke for years and St Mirren have always struggled to shift many more season tickets so these things are the same as they were before. What's different about Scottish football is Rangers going tits up and costing other people millions in the process. Stroll on.

[CityDave]

The way in which Caledonian FC were pushed into merging with Inverness Thistle in order to gain a place in the Scottish Football League, then the Rangers/Sevco thing.

I'm sure it would get one or two mentions.

[Guest Kincardine]

What's different about Scottish football is Rangers going tits up and costing other people millions in the process. Stroll on.

Your post had a deal of sense in it and well-worthy of a load of green dots. I hope lots of Bears read it and take note.

There is, though, something I take a bit of an issue with. Selling 30-thousand-odd season tickets is, to quote "1066 and All That", A GOOD THING.

Now we Gers fans should not use that to batter wee diddies over the head with. Some have and I deprecate it.

Equally, though, wee diddies shouldn't regard our season ticket sales as something to laugh at.

Most of us have a healthy dose of scepticism towards Charles Green. The reason for people buying their briefs is not down to a few sound bites. It's pretty simple: they want to go and watch their team.

[HTG]

Your post had a deal of sense in it and well-worthy of a load of green dots. I hope lots of Bears read it and take note.

There is, though, something I take a bit of an issue with. Selling 30-thousand-odd season tickets is, to quote "1066 and All That", A GOOD THING.

Now we Gers fans should not use that to batter wee diddies over the head with. Some have and I deprecate it.

Equally, though, wee diddies shouldn't regard our season ticket sales as something to laugh at.

Most of us have a healthy dose of scepticism towards Charles Green. The reason for people buying their briefs is not down to a few sound bites. It's pretty simple: they want to go and watch their team.

Kincardine, in itself selling 30k+ season tickets is indeed impressive. But the way that number has been used by some of your supporters to belittle other clubs isn't. We might find out soon enough but I suspect that if Hearts have to start again in SFL3 because Romanov pulls the plug or runs out of cash, they will sell season tickets in very good numbers - perhaps at a lower rate because they are unlikely to have their stadium in such an event. But there would be an impressive response just the same. In that sense Rangers are not unique. The purchase of these season tickets at Rangers is in part a gesture of relief that the club is still around at all and partly a decision by any number of individuals to make sure they do their bit to avoid any repetition of what they have just been through. And it is a means of supporting the club which is focused in a way that could not be achieved when different people were pulling the club to bits last season and all they had was Sandy Jardine doing a "Delia". God help Charles Green if this doesn't work out - he'll be lynched. And I'm not sure how much control he has yet of events which are still in the pipeline.

[PeeTeeJag]

The Rangers fans have had it tough over the past few months because of what has happened, but then again many other fans have had it just as tough over the past 20 years due to what has happened at Ibrox.

But The Rangers fans really don't know whether they are coming or going right now. A lot of people have been playing a game and pulling the strings of the fans this way and that. Their heads are in a collective spin, but as long as a team in blue goes on the park, they are happy with that.

However, the game is still being played, and the fans are the unwitting players in all of this. It's becoming like The Truman Show as their emotions and money are being pulled and pushed this way and that. It's actually something that governments do to keep it's people in line. One minute there is a terrorist threat, then it's reduced, but then it's an outbreak of a virus that could spread and kill us all, then it's not as bad as first thought................

The people are so confused that they don't know what to think and just go along with whatever they are told to do.

So it is with the Ibrox faithful.

Craig Whyte says to trust him and McCoist says he is "100% happy" with Whyte's backing. Now Ally says he never trusted him.

Whyte says he has investors that will put a lot of money into the club and bring in the best players they can. No one at first questions this.

Whyte says the fans are the best in the world and together they will make the club great. Fans pleased with this.

Documentary comes out that says everything is not as rosy at Ibrox with regards to Craig Whyte as people are being led to believe. Fans and club are livid at such speculation, but at least it gets them asking where the money is and who these investors are.

Fans find out Craig Whyte got a loan to buy Rangers and using their season ticket money to pay off the loan. Fans outraged.

But hang on a second..........

Isn't all of this sounding a little familiar?

Ally only a short while ago was telling fans not to renew season tickets until Charles Green came up with answers to the questions being put to him, but now, despite none of these questions being answered, Ally now says he trusts Green because he has earned that trust. How exactly did he do that?

Green says he has investors that will put a lot of money into the club and bring in the best players they can. Yet has never shown proof of these investors or their money. Ofcourse, we get a lot of bluster from the man about guys such as Mike Ashley, and foreign businessmen, but nothing ever concrete. Just enough to keep the fans on the edge of their seats waiting for a securicor van full of cash to park outside Ibrox.

Green says the fans are the best in the world and together they will make the club great. Fans pleased with this. Green seen giving cups of tea to fans and shaking hands with people in the disabled section. Does this make him trustworthy? Hardly. But it does mean if he is doing that then he doesn't have to answer questions on how the club is being run. He is like the guy that walks into a bar, finds a girl looking a bit down because her boyfriend dumped her, tells her she is the most beautiful girl he's ever laid eyes on, gets her all giggly, takes her home and sleeps with her. Then she wonders why he never calls or sees her again. He's telling the fans what they want to hear, and although they may not believe any of it, it makes them feel a bit better about themselves for a while.

Fans find out Charles Green got a loan to buy Rangers and using their season ticket money to pay off the loan. Fans not bothered as long as they have players on the park.

£10 million on season ticket sales and about half of that has gone to pay off Green's loan to buy the club. So he's bought the club for nothing effectively and the fans have paid for it. The rest will be used for the upkeep of the club and paying players. In the future he hopes to have a share issue where the fans can buy shares in the club (that they already just paid for) again.

His major problem now is where does he get the money to keep the club going? Investors obviously, but despite his speeches there aren't many people willing to buy into a club that still has so much hanging over it. Millionaires and billionaires don't just give their money away without wanting a good return on it. What Green is doing is exactly what Whyte did. Whilst Whyte bet everything on CL money saving the club, Green is betting everything on the fans bailing him out with their readies and a good couple of cup runs, as well as the EBT thing not being as bad as it's feared and him hoping that he doesn't have to pay the football debts around the world.

But he's already started looking at an exit strategy. Not of the "someone with more money than sense to buy him out" kind though. He is already poking the hornet's nest at the SFA and SPL with his pandering to the Ibrox masses and his hard done by stories to the media. He knows they are going to kick him from pillar to post for these, and as soon as it becomes obvious to him that he can't keep the club afloat (if it comes to that) then he will walk away claiming he was driven out of Scottish football and that he did his best for a club he came to love (despite the fans hatred of him only months before), and that the SFA and SPL have killed the club, not him.

I'm sure many fans, as Kincardine said, are cautious of Green and giving him a little leeway to see if he can come good. The truth is they don't really have any choice because no one else wanted to touch the club despite rumblings from Smith, Brown and TBK.

If he can turn the club around, then fair play to him and the fans. But it is now up to the fans to think for themselves and not be persuaded by the words of a man they know very little about, apart from he is hated at Sheffield, or a manager (legend or otherwise) who knows he is only hanging onto his job for as long as Green deems him a useful buffer with the fans.

The game against Falkirk tonight may well have Green and McCoist more worried than they would ever let on.

[Fasda]

Selling 30,000 season tickets in any league is impressive.

Getting a 50,000 crowd at a fourth tier game is very impressive.

Having a previous history of averaging 45,000 or so at home games is more impressive yet.

Having that capacity and going completely titsup to the point of liquidation (even excluding the dodgy taxation policy) and ending up in the ownership of a speculator , at best, takes some doing.

Doing all that whilst maintaining a WATP philosophy and spewing hatred, bile, blame and revenge on every body in view.... that's hilarious and that's why we're all pointing and laughing.

[K Dodd]

1345509590[/url]' post='6547995']

I'm struggling to think of a singularly more embarrassing episode if I'm honest.

What would you put forward?

What about " wullie Johnson thrown outta world cup 1978" now, who did he play for again? Maybe not quite on the same scale, but it hit the headlines worldwide.

[CityDave]

What about " wullie Johnson thrown outta world cup 1978" now, who did he play for again? Maybe not quite on the same scale, but it hit the headlines worldwide.

He was at West Brom in 1978.

[K Dodd]

1345544674[/url]' post='6548550']

He was at West Brom in 1978.

He was still a cheating ***.

[Stagmaster]

Not been on here for a while. Anyone know when I should look out for the Armageddon, Social Unrest and the Death of our beloved Football Clubs?

It's taking ages. I was promised by Traynor and his troops it would happen.

[old school]

Sevcovians posted mobile number of Falkirk on twitter and posting fake reviews on his DJ site. Sums that mob up.

[old school]

What about " wullie Johnson thrown outta world cup 1978" now, who did he play for again? Maybe not quite on the same scale, but it hit the headlines worldwide.

And Bud came to us so no....

[K Dodd]

1345545149[/url]' post='6548574']

And Bud came to us so no....

It was all I could come up with. I'll keep tryin, but I'm struggling.

[old school]

It was all I could come up with. I'll keep tryin, but I'm struggling.

You won't find any either

[old school]

It was all I could come up with. I'll keep tryin, but I'm struggling.

Maybe destroying two cities in two European finals !?!?!

[Guest Kincardine]

Doing all that whilst maintaining a WATP philosophy and spewing hatred, bile, blame and revenge on every body in view.... that's hilarious and that's why we're all pointing and laughing.

Look at the Bears who post on this site. Now we obviously have a few wee fannies - but look at the long-standing members here. Do you see many, "spewing hatred, bile, blame and revenge"? I think not.

It's easy to portray us as fat, drunken, wife-beating, sashed-up Orange b*****ds. The truth is duller and much more prosaic: we're just ordinary people who like our team and like football.

[K Dodd]

1345545552[/url]' post='6548589']

Maybe destroying two cities in two European finals !?!?!

Ah yes, their proudest moments. Anyways that was Chelsea fans(honestly)

[Mark Connolly]

Selling 30,000 season tickets in any league is impressive.

Getting a 50,000 crowd at a fourth tier game is very impressive.

Having a previous history of averaging 45,000 or so at home games is more impressive yet.

Having that capacity and going completely titsup to the point of liquidation (even excluding the dodgy taxation policy) and ending up in the ownership of a speculator , at best, takes some doing.

Doing all that whilst maintaining a WATP philosophy and spewing hatred, bile, blame and revenge on every body in view.... that's hilarious and that's why we're all pointing and laughing.

Please forward this to all MSM outlets - it sums up the situation perfectly.

[cyderspaceman]

Green says he has investors that will put a lot of money into the club and bring in the best players they can. Yet has never shown proof of these investors or their money. Ofcourse, we get a lot of bluster from the man about guys such as Mike Ashley, and foreign businessmen, but nothing ever concrete. Just enough to keep the fans on the edge of their seats waiting for a securicor van full of cash to park outside Ibrox.

If any large amount of money were to arrive at Ibrox, it would not be used to buy "star" players. Let's face it, your 'van Persies' won't come to the SFL 3rd. This money (were it ever to arrive) would be salted away in a phantom "war chest", only to be spirited away when the opportunity arose. The only way out, bar league reconstruction, is a long, hard slog up through the divisions. Green and his 'backers' don't want that and neither do the fans, despite what they may say. 2nd liquidation soon enough.

[Mark Connolly]

Look at the Bears who post on this site. Now we obviously have a few wee fannies - but look at the long-standing members here. Do you see many, "spewing hatred, bile, blame and revenge"? I think not.

It's easy to portray us as fat, drunken, wife-beating, sashed-up Orange b*****ds. The truth is duller and much more prosaic: we're just ordinary people who like our team and like football.

That's the problem though, isn't it?

Rangers fans like yourself, Knightswood Bear and No 8 (on his good days) seem to be few and far between, in my experience at least. While most clubs will have a minority of fuds amongst their support, Rangers fans seem to be the reverse, or the vocal minority (if it is the minority) are so vocal, that you all get tarred with the same brush.

Other fans accept that what has happened is very hard on the honest fans who have effectively p*shed their money up against the wall for 140 years while dodgy businessmen f*cked your club. We also understand the head in the sand mentality, at least for a while, but what makes the whole situation so unbelievable is the lack of realisation that everything has gone tits up, and that the business plan appears to be exactly the same again. Unsustainable expenditure v reduced income - it didn't work under Murray, it didn't work under Whyte, and yet it seems everyone should accept that it will work under Green. I'm no betting man, but my bookie says it won't.

On a more lighthearted note, I just saw a chap on Byres Road in a Rangers top with "Whyte 1" on the back - either this is an extremely brave WUM or a total irony bypass!