stonedsailor Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Serious questions - anyone know the answers? This creditors' meeting, then. I see there's a vote to appoint the liquidators - and establish a liquidation committee. I assume that's just to rubber-stamp BDO is it? Do the creditors have any say in how the liquidators proceed, or do they have to trust to the liquidators' professionalism and experience to extract the maximum worth from the liquidation?* ETA:* By which I mean do the creditors have any right to direct the liquidators? Now that the BTC has been settled, Rangers admitting to some wrong doing, Rangers being found to be liable in some cases and cleared in others, would Sevco fans be interested in pushing Green to do the right thing? Rangers have the opportunity to totally wipe the slate, to gain back their dignity, pride and club. All Chucky would need to do is to roll up at the meeting on 5th December and offer to buy the old club, take on it's debts (no massive tax bill now) and agree terms with the creditors who remain. No right minded person would argue against continuation then, as a club they would be Rangers in reality and not just their heads, all would be good. If "Rangers" fans are interested in justice would this not be the way forward? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsy Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Sorry but that's not true. Only part of the assessment was appealed and only some of that successfully. I'm well aware that the appeal was found part club,part HMRC in some aspects,i'm not disputing that by any means,in fact there are points in this thread where i've said the outcome maybe part and part but the fact is that the verdict of the tribunal was carried in a majority of 2 to 1 in the clubs favour. That is indisputable but it seems to be disregarded by many. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsy Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Now that the BTC has been settled, Rangers admitting to some wrong doing, Rangers being found to be liable in some cases and cleared in others, would Sevco fans be interested in pushing Green to do the right thing? Rangers have the opportunity to totally wipe the slate, to gain back their dignity, pride and club. All Chucky would need to do is to roll up at the meeting on 5th December and offer to buy the old club, take on it's debts (no massive tax bill now) and agree terms with the creditors who remain. No right minded person would argue against continuation then, as a club they would be Rangers in reality and not just their heads, all would be good. If "Rangers" fans are interested in justice would this not be the way forward? I would agree with that only on the small creditors,by that i mean disregarding Ticketus and HMRC debt that Whyte brought upon the PLC. No problem whatsoever with paying the rest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Well you are obviously quite dense. HMRC lost the bulk of the case therefore Rangers won the bulk of the case. Furthermore Rangers won on the legal point that the side-letters did not constitute a contract and that any payment from a trust fund was purely discretionary. It doesn't really matter that they lost a few side issues (mainly paying contracted compensation improperly through EBTs) the SPL and SFA don't have specific rules against not paying your taxes on time. They didn't even have rules about paying players on time. Those losses can get added to the mountain of VAT and PAYE that Craig Whyte juked. The one thing the SPL and SFA do state is that all contracts must be lodged and now Rangers have a legal ruling that backs up their claim about their handling of he paperwork. The only thing that matters about oldco is whether titles were going to be stripped. I won't prejudged the SPL outcome but the victory in the tax case is a boon to their chances of not being punished by the footballing authorities. That's quite a well written post. But I don't respond to personal abuse, sorry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doink Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 f**k dignity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlin Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Now that the BTC has been settled, Rangers admitting to some wrong doing, Rangers being found to be liable in some cases and cleared in others, would Sevco fans be interested in pushing Green to do the right thing? Rangers have the opportunity to totally wipe the slate, to gain back their dignity, pride and club. All Chucky would need to do is to roll up at the meeting on 5th December and offer to buy the old club, take on it's debts (no massive tax bill now) and agree terms with the creditors who remain. No right minded person would argue against continuation then, as a club they would be Rangers in reality and not just their heads, all would be good. If "Rangers" fans are interested in justice would this not be the way forward? In other words - "We're only saying you're a new club as we're raging you got off without paying back the creditors" Idiots. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Now that the BTC has been settled, Rangers admitting to some wrong doing, Rangers being found to be liable in some cases and cleared in others, would Sevco fans be interested in pushing Green to do the right thing? Rangers have the opportunity to totally wipe the slate, to gain back their dignity, pride and club. All Chucky would need to do is to roll up at the meeting on 5th December and offer to buy the old club, take on it's debts (no massive tax bill now) and agree terms with the creditors who remain. No right minded person would argue against continuation then, as a club they would be Rangers in reality and not just their heads, all would be good. If "Rangers" fans are interested in justice would this not be the way forward? Now that stands as the most sensible post from anyone on here in the last few weeks. In all but one respect. * Given the real potential of rangers' future earnings (not Chuckie's Tales of Wonder), the debts could be structured, and the club could emerge HONESTLY debt-free in a few years. Most clubs operate with some kind of structured debt anyway. They get their club, everyone sees them punished, and the other clubs get used to living within their means and structuring earnings more fairly without that pesky 11-1 structure. Maybe the more sensible rangers fans would push for more clarity at boardroom level in order to ensure they never get in the same position again. A job for Youngsy or Kincardine, mibbes? Win-win, from where I'm standing. The footballing side, mind? Don't forget the SPL tribunal is unconcerned with the legality of the EBTs/loans/side payments - simply the application of them. That could yet be the fly in the ointment/elephant in the room/inset fauna-based saying here. * If he turns up on the 5th, he'll be a day late. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 In other words - "We're only saying you're a new club as we're raging you got off without paying back the creditors" Idiots. No fuckwit, what I am saying is that the club have not been liquidated yet and as such it could still be saved and continue as Rangers, all it would take would be for Chucky to buy it on Sevco Scotland's behalf and merge his new club into it. The Rangers playing in the fourth teir of Scottish football are not the Rangers about to be put to the sword. Sevconians, what are they like? As for youngsy's point about only small creditors, you cannot pick and choose your debts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnforever1992 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 So Charles Green did resurrect the old club, HMRC won't like this bad news for zombie Rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Sigh another Orc with severe comprehension issues .... Do you think it would be easier put this way. What happens if a billionaire turns up with off the radar wealth, buys what's left of Rangers (not a lot I know), fills the club with real players and starts a successful European campaign the season after next (I'm assuming he could provide UEFA with the old accounts in order to qualify). Which Rangers are the real ones? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlin Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Yeah i'll admit i did misread that, embarrassingly so... We don't need to buy back the oldco though as the only ones who claim we're a new club are the obsessed on this forum... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) I would agree with that only on the small creditors,by that i mean disregarding Ticketus and HMRC debt that Whyte brought upon the PLC. No problem whatsoever with paying the rest. Again with the fucking cherry-picking! Whyte incurred those debts on behalf of rangers - certainly the HMRC debt, the Ticketus money will keep m'learned friends busy for a while yet - and as a Director, he was acting as an agent of the club. As an Executive, he was empowered to take desisions on behalf of the club, and did so. It is the club's debt, not his. The point SS was making, and which I agree, is that before liquidation is finalised, there is still a chance to save rangers. The rangers' fans frankly pathetic trumpeting of the Tribute Act as the same club may have muddied the waters, but if Charlie can come to a deal, and structure what is now a much lower debt (with much lower wages, to boot), rangers - the real rangers - could still be saved. Do their fans not want this? Edited November 28, 2012 by WhiteRoseKillie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Still investigating bhenny the ball oh and the creditors meeting at Ibrox is on the 4th of December. Ticketus is still listed as creditor along with Craig Whyte! I was hoping to keep that a secret Bhairn, has Norman been training you in the ways of the secret agent? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 That's quite a well written post. But I don't respond to personal abuse, sorry. ^^^^^^ doesn't know what respond means 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The lies spread by BTC and the BBC Doc (2nd one) were also used to justify how we were being treated "they've been cheating for years, they deserve to be punished severly". BTC coward also claimed that Mark Daly got his information from him (Daly refused to answer this) and this was used extremely well to tarnish the club. Genuine question time: What did Daly actually get factually wrong,even in the light of last week's ruling? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 ^^^^^^ doesn't know what respond means I think you got the point regardless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I would go for that, as long as the club can get everything back that it is due from the SPL and transfer money, D & P But not Ticketus, nor as Youngsy said the money that CW ripped HMRC for, he should pay that himself As I posted previously, Tedi, any money due from the SPL would be subject to rangers not having contravened the rules of that competition. That investigation is still ongoing, and if there's any cheating discovered, I reckon they'd be better keeping quiet. As for transfer money - speak to the Austrians and see what you can work out. A good starting point. FFS, a poster lays out a perfectly reasonable plan for rangers to continue with some dignity and satisfaction on all sides, with their club not dying and honouring its debts, and what do we get: We're no' payin' thame! Craig Whyte! Fuckin' SPL! Dear God, and they wonder why people don't like them, whether they care or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Again with the fucking cherry-picking! Whyte incurred those debts on behalf of rangers - certainly the HMRC debt, the Ticketus money will keep m'learned friends busy for a while yet - and as a Director, he was acting as an agent of the club. As an Executive, he was empowered to take desisions on behalf of the club, and did so. It is the club's debt, not his. The point SS was making, and which I agree, is that before liquidation is finalised, there is still a chance to save rangers. The rangers' fans frankly pathetic trumpeting of the Tribute Act as the same club may have muddied the waters, but if Charlie can come to a deal, and structure what is now a much lower debt (with much lower wages, to boot), rangers - the real rangers - could still be saved. Do their fans not want this? I thought you didn't want the real Rangers saved - I might have picked you up wrong from the previous 3972 pages but I thought you wanted the entire bigoted, cheating, triumphalist, stinking, sectarian outfit hung, drawn and quartered and sent to the firey pit for all eternity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Are you trying to suggest that the HMRC guesstimates were not hanging over any potential sale before the 'tit on the internet' decide to play fast and loose with the truth via illegally obtained documents from within HMRC? And you'll struggle to get a date for the started of the runway's blog - because the man who was so emboldened to say this: "Alistair, Sir David, Martin: as we say in Glasgow: "Come ahead!" has fucked off and deleted the contents of his blog. Isn't it very entertaining that now Murray has indeed decided to 'come ahead' the RTC man is running as fast as he can? 1. If you have ever run a business you will know that HMRC will pop up at some point and demand a pile of money from you. Usually the figure is one they first thought of, and then they double it! That isn't the problem. It is how you deal with it. You can be sure Rangers did not deal with it in an open and transparent manner. This gets HMRC excited because they think there is something being hidden. In this case quite correctly. Plus the people within Rangers they would have been dealing with have not exactly come across as trustworthy in any dealings with either the SFA or the courts. (Read the reports). Shake hands with Martin Bain and count your fingers (it's the tan ) 2. The RTC may have deleted pages but easy to get access to them with a modicum of technical nous. So not a big deal. 3. Murray seems to have taken a lead from Lord McAlpine in dealing with accusations against him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Yeah i'll admit i did misread that, embarrassingly so... We don't need to buy back the oldco though as the only ones who claim we're a new club are the obsessed on this forum... You are correct the oldco does not need to be bought and there would only be one reason to do so, to bring Rangers' once good reputation to Sevco. Green has fooled you lot, with the help of the MSM, into believing he continued Rangers' existence so he can quite easily shed the debt and make money from you. The obsessed on here are not the only ones, everyone you talk to about the situation who is not a Sevconian pisses themselves laughing at you when you are out of earshot. Most media outlets are referring to you as Rangers because it's easier than nailing up their letterboxes or wading through mountains of emails saying "we are pure Rangers so we are. Fix your website or else" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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