Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Ken Fitlike]

Rangers FC did not gain any unfair competitive advantage from the contraventions of the SPL Rules in failing to make proper disclosure of the side-letter arrangements, nor did the non-disclosure have the effect that any of the registered players were ineligible to play, and for this and other reasons no sporting sanction or penalty should be imposed upon Rangers FC

I'll just never ever get my head round that.

They should chisel it onto a stone monument and erect it outside Hampden Park.

We could call it the Cheating b*****ds Monument.

Guilty as charged, but somehow emerging triumphant.

stong drink needed here.

a couple of articles which may not have been seen yet.......

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/hugh-macdonald-on-rangers-verdict.20383018

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/michael-grant-on-rangers-verdict.20381009

Edited March 1, 2013 by Ken Fitlike

[No8.]

With Morton on the cusp on the top flight and Rangers grubbing it in the 3rd division not one season after going bust, there's only one diddy team here.

Hint: it's you.

Also none of you have made any attempt to defend the shameful anti Catholic posts from earlier in the thread. I think we know why. By all means continue the faeces flinging.

Maybe we should wait and see who the Morton players backed at the bookies before we talk about promotion.

Hopefully your chairman can afford promotion payments

Don't worry your dirty little secrets are safe with me.

[GiGi]

Maybe we should wait and see who the Morton players backed at the bookies before we talk about promotion.

Hopefully your chairman can afford promotion payments

Don't worry your dirty little secrets are safe with me.

Morton have no dirty little secrets, much unlike Sevco whose dirty laundry is being aired humiliatingly in front of the nation. But once again, let's just turn and throw shit at everyone else and ignore the shameful anti-Catholic agenda shown on this thread and continue to celebrate the fact that a judge ruled that deliberately concealing documentation that would have lead the authorities to uncovering up to £45million in EBTs did not give Rangers a competitive advantage.

Also, OJ was innocent.

[archie guevara]

Just as an aside... will the new Pope inherit any miracles that happened under Benedict? They will both be known as the Pope, but are not the same.

[ribzanelli]

Listening to talksport it's refreshing to listen to a radio station that isn't against us.

Who was the presenter with Goughy? It was horrible listening to his revised version of history, he clearly had no concept of what has gone on and it seemed like he had just read a few Traynor/Green press rants and taken them at face value.

[~~~]

One of my favourite lines from the verdict

"If it had not been intended that the player would directly benefit from the EBT arrangements then there is no reason to believe that the player would have agreed to accept the overall financial package offered by Oldco."

[GreenockRover]

Well, guess it's my turn to analyse this "news"

Deliberately waited for the predictable infestation of irregular contributors bringing their "in depth" responses to the bit of the judgement they approve of to subside

Regardless of personally held opinions about this particular chapter of Rangers (L), the judgement does appear rather odd. The fine is akin to chucking a pebble into a massive pile of boulders about to be skipped.

As it all currently stands.... It's ok to have dual contracts, the use of EBT's is fine as well. Simply changing your clubs' ownership allows legitimate dumping of debt whilst preserving all your previous attainments and references. ?

Thats right isn't it? Is it??

I've mentioned before the "influence" that businessmen have brought to the game and, for me at least, there is little surprise at the outcomes to date. The courts are full of hungry creditors being shafted by insolvent companies without a care in the world, safe in the knowledge that, after a short period, they'll do it again under a different name. Because they can.

When football and business got into bed together these outcomes were sadly inevitable. The fools in charge of our game (even before the present idiots) we're no match for the business sharks and their corporate lawyers infesting Clubs at the top table. But, seeing as the clubs at the top had their men in place at the SFA, all was cosy.

It is debatable whether our game had any credible reputation to lose over this shambles, but, if the banks are now toying with "negative interest rates", we're definitely in the red for credibility reserves.

The seedy side of sharp, borderline legal and morally repugnant business practice has been exposed to an audience not used to seeing such outright brazeness. Some seem disturbingly ok with it but I will always point out it's moralistic shortcomings, regardless of the audience.

Any fanbase willing to condone or even ignore this type of behaviour in the name of sport or winning at any cost is morally bankrupt.

Edited March 1, 2013 by GreenockRover

[~~~]

Another line

Oldco through its senior management decided that such side-letter arrangements should not be disclosed to the football authorities, and the Board of Directors sanctioned the making of payments under the side-letter arrangements without taking any legal or accountancy advice to justify the non-disclosure

Trying to hide it? that's a bit more than a simple "admin error"

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

Morning! No real surprises yesterday, other than a fine given to a penniless company in liquidation. Trolling from Nimmo-Smith? Beautifully done if so.

I think the most interesting thing will be Scottish Football's next 'insolvency event'. I can't help but think that the authorities have now backed themselves into a corner. In the past there were some pretty clear dis-incentives to going out of business. Loss of 'history', loss of your name, and most importantly loss of your league status (Gretna and Airdrieonians being the two most recent who were told to GTF as a 'warning' to other clubs to keep solvent). Now it has gone the other way. The only 'punishment' in place is being shoved into the bottom league. That in itself, I believe, creates an incentive for clubs to engage in financial mismanagement, especially if they are already in the lower leagues. How could the authorities justify not treating another club like they have treated Rangers?

[captain kirk]

Except Nimmo`s findings rendered the HMRC`s appeal totally worthless even if they win.

The EBT`s were payments, the payments were legal, there were no dual contracts.

Rangers failed to produce paperwork for some of them, the directors thought the scheme was possibly dodgy, but in fact nothing was dodgy, Rangers were found guilty of failing to produce paperwork for a perfectly legal system.

That's incorrect ,IF the upcoming appeal finds that the EBTs weren't loans but taxable payments and Rangers are thus found guilty then that means that rangers had an unfair financial advantage when buying/paying players as they would have been receiving monies via an illegal tax dodge,

And don't forget rangers have already admitted that there is tax payable on dozens of EBTs ( the ones they didn't challenge the hmrc with)

Rangers fans seem to forget there is an appeal pending with HMRC so you can forget all his ,perfectly legal stuff.

[Bendarroch]

No incorrectly registered players is here to stay, this means we were not breaking the player registration rules thus no unfair advantage was sought or gained on the field.

No HMRC appeal can ever change these facts.

I think it's fair to say that not only are the plastics and diddies having difficulty in swallowing the facts of the matter - the gag-reflex induced is making them quite sick.

Pleasing.

Speaking of which, I'm looking forward to a very special day at Ibrox tomorrow. LNS masks all round.

[Bookies Love Me]

"It's all a big t*mmy conspiracy, so it is"

Funny how this phrase has disappeared from the rangers supporters vocabulary, to be replaced by:

"You can't argue with the commission".

What happened to the impartial tic lawyer?

[Jacksgranda]

"It's all a big t*mmy conspiracy, so it is"

Funny how this phrase has disappeared from the rangers supporters vocabulary, to be replaced by:

"You can't argue with the commission".

What happened to the impartial tic lawyer?

He was called away to Rome to sort out a contractual matter there, and was substituted by Donald Findlay. Explains it all, really.

[Bearwithme]

Another line

Trying to hide it? that's a bit more than a simple "admin error"

The scheme wasn't hidden. It was disclosed in the company's accounts which were submitted to the SFA/SPL. Other information wasn't handed over to the SFA/SPL in order to protect the company's tax position. The company has been fined for that.

[dorlomin]

Still chuckling at the Fukushima type meltdown on here yesterday.

[~~~]

"It's all a big t*mmy conspiracy, so it is"

Funny how this phrase has disappeared from the rangers supporters vocabulary, to be replaced by:

"You can't argue with the commission".

What happened to the impartial tic lawyer?

Charles Green did say

this was a kangaroo court, a Mickey Mouse operation, the verdict was preordained and title-stripping was being aggressively pursued by Rangers' enemies within the SPL

[~~~]

The scheme wasn't hidden. It was disclosed in the company's accounts which were submitted to the SFA/SPL. Other information wasn't handed over to the SFA/SPL in order to protect the company's tax position. The company has been fined for that.

LNS has made it pretty clear this wasn't an "admin error" by the Rangers board.

[AUFC90]

Well, guess it's my turn to analyse this "news"

Deliberately waited for the predictable infestation of irregular contributors bringing their "in depth" responses to the bit of the judgement they approve of to subside

Regardless of personally held opinions about this particular chapter of Rangers (L), the judgement does appear rather odd. The fine is akin to chucking a pebble into a massive pile of boulders about to be skipped.

As it all currently stands.... It's ok to have dual contracts, the use of EBT's is fine as well. Simply changing your clubs' ownership allows legitimate dumping of debt whilst preserving all your previous attainments and references. ?

Thats right isn't it? Is it??

I've mentioned before the "influence" that businessmen have brought to the game and, for me at least, there is little surprise at the outcomes to date. The courts are full of hungry creditors being shafted by insolvent companies without a care in the world, safe in the knowledge that, after a short period, they'll do it again under a different name. Because they can.

When football and business got into bed together these outcomes were sadly inevitable. The fools in charge of our game (even before the present idiots) we're no match for the business sharks and their corporate lawyers infesting Clubs at the top table. But, seeing as the clubs at the top had their men in place at the SFA, all was cosy.

It is debatable whether our game had any credible reputation to lose over this shambles, but, if the banks are now toying with "negative interest rates", we're definitely in the red for credibility reserves.

The seedy side of sharp, borderline legal and morally repugnant business practice has been exposed to an audience not used to seeing such outright brazeness. Some seem disturbingly ok with it but I will always point out it's moralistic shortcomings, regardless of the audience.

Any fanbase willing to condone or even ignore this type of behaviour in the name of sport or winning at any cost is morally bankrupt.

Indeed, the waters have never been murkier. The worst thing to come out of this sorry mess is this whole club/ company separation argument.

Basically a club can run up as much debt as it wants as its not anything to do with the club. It's immune from liquidation. Also if my club has broken rules when it was under a different ownership than it is currently then it isn't to blame for its previous wrongdoings because it has different owners

[Double Jack D]

_{It's a funny world is Scottish Football. I'm still struggling for this verdict to sink in however, reading the report thoroughly last night I certainly understand LNS logic. His report, for me, is a damning indictment of the SFA's rules.}

_{Rangers fans are proving that nothing matters to them as long as club continuity is recognised and titles aren't stripped. Despite being liquidated and being found guilty of not disclosing all payments to players as per SFA rules, the club continues in the eyes of the authorities and all titles have been kept as there was "no competitive advantage" as the players were all registered. As a diddy club fan, this reality is difficult to accept as we know it wouldn't have been the case for us. Rangers fans are jubilant, despite the guilty verdict.}

_{I accept the findings of LNS as he is the law but, yet again in this saga, Rangers and their supporters are showing the rest of the game up here absolutely zero respect. The "Newco when it suits" attitude is particularly galling in that all the good things with liquidation are accepted and the bad things are left with the oldco. Unfortunately for the rest of us we just have to suck it up as the Authorities are clearly happy for this or their regulations and laws are not capable of doing anything about it. The £250k fine is one of the highest (if not the highest) ever dished out by the SFA and shows the extent of the deception but is totally symbolic as New Rangers won't be paying it. Again Rangers fans, rather than being embarrassed at this, think its great that they have dodged their responsibility and their club and titles are intact.}

_{The ruling yesterday further deteriorated my interest in Scottish Football. I'm not going to say I'll never go to another game because I probably will but the incompetence of the overseeing organisations means that it will move further down my priority list for what to spend my time/ cash on during my precious free time. I want to watch competetive sport, not dodgy, morally corrupt businesses fighting it out over technicalities in the rulebook. This, coupled with the deterioration of sporting integrity on the pitch (diving etc) are not what I want to watch.}

_{I'm even less interested in hearing about what the pope or catholic priests are up to....}

_{I think the only thing that will renew my interest in the professional game is if the Old Firm were to secure a move elsewhere. At this point in time, it is clear to me that they are all that matter to the footballing authorities in Scotland and the rest of us are simply here as "Harlem Globetrotter opposition".}

_{I expect accusations of seethe, they may have been warranted yesterday. Today I've definitely moved on to despair. The game I love is currently a bogey.}

[AUFC90]

No incorrectly registered players is here to stay, this means we were not breaking the player registration rules thus no unfair advantage was sought or gained on the field.

No HMRC appeal can ever change these facts.

If yous lose the appeal it means your club has used an illegal tax avoidance system to have more money than it would've had otherwise. Givingthe company that owns the club a financial advantage translates to an advantage on the park. If it does turn out to be a landslide in favour of Hector, nimmo smith will look like a tit and his judgement will be laughable