Monkey Tennis Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 So what do you call deducting NIC and PAYE from their employees and then... keeping it? That's just the bit they're admitting to - there's another two tax cases, the possibility/likelihood that they're trading while insolvent, the non-payment of debts to fellow SPL clubs, many other clubs and a massive list of other businesses..... The legal terms aren't important, they have been behaving in a fraudulent manner for years, possibly decades. KTID And although not "fraud" as such, there's also the allegation that for years they were fielding teams full of players who had not been properly registered with the game's governing body. That's not fraud though, merely systematic cheating. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearwithme Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 So many allegations.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 So what do you call deducting NIC and PAYE from their employees and then... keeping it? it's not a crime until a court orders you to pay and it you refuse. that didn't happen. the reason why hmrc didn't take them attempt to get a court order against them sooner for the non payment is something i would like know more about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightmile Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 The one that doesn't have Mark Dingwall behind it I stay away from RFC fan stuff - why is this guy so reviled and if he is why is he part of the Blue Knights bid - or is he not? Simple stuff please and if its unpleasant I'd rather not know? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 it's not a crime until you get caught. the reason why hmrc didn't take them attempt to get a court order against them sooner for the non payment is something i would like know more about. Fixed. KTID 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearwithme Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 It's not a crime to not pay your bills, which is what Whyte did (and I doubt if anyone is defending that). It's up to whoever you owe the money to whether they take legal action to enforce the debt. But that still wouldn't involve criminal charges. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 It's not a crime to not pay your bills, which is what Whyte did (and I doubt if anyone is defending that). It's up to whoever you owe the money to whether they take legal action to enforce the debt. But that still wouldn't involve criminal charges. It is a crime to purchase goods when you know you cannot pay for them. Trading while insolvent is the charge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 "If you're going through hell, keep going". Yep, Rangers are indeed taking positive steps to get rid of sectarianism. In other words, no inventiveness or ingenuity at all and of course Messrs O'Donnell, MacLean and Craig innovative initiative had nothing to do with them copying the Man Utd yellow/green idea. Are you serious? Red and Black? FFS, this means I will have to burn my treasured Inverness Thistle scarf from back in the day. Dis-chuffed! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I stay away from RFC fan stuff - why is this guy so reviled and if he is why is he part of the Blue Knights bid - or is he not? Simple stuff please and if its unpleasant I'd rather not know? Then why ask? Just keep your head buried in the sand and then you can continue blaming all Rangers ills on others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearwithme Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) It is a crime to purchase goods when you know you cannot pay for them. Trading while insolvent is the charge. I wouldn't claim to be an expert on "trading while insolvent" but I suspect that's reaching. We'll see if there is any "charge". Edited April 9, 2012 by Bearwithme 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 if leeds united can go through liquiadation and keep their identity and history why can't a scottish club? Which Leeds United was liquidated...Leeds United Football Club Limited, Leeds United AFC, Leeds United PLC, Leeds United 2007 Ltd or Leeds United Association Football Club Limited? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILLIEA Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Every time I lapse into thinking maybe they should survive in some form or other, after suitable punishment, you read something like this.. "If you're going through hell, keep going". FFS Wish I hadn't clicked that link 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Which Leeds United was liquidated...Leeds United Football Club Limited, Leeds United AFC, Leeds United PLC, Leeds United 2007 Ltd or Leeds United Association Football Club Limited? But that's the depressing point. Whatever it was that got liquidated, there is a current entity, recognised as Leeds United, who were very successful in the 1970s under Don Revie. The challenge here is to ensure that any Rangers Newco is seen as new and different from the entity we know today with its list of honours and despicable, yet apparently enduringly appealing history. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 But that's the depressing point. Whatever it was that got liquidated, there is a current entity, recognised as Leeds United, who were very successful in the 1970s under Don Revie. The challenge here is to ensure that any Rangers Newco is seen as new and different from the entity we know today with its list of honours and despicable, yet apparently enduringly appealing history. In my extremely limited knowledge, I believe Ken Bates was one step ahead of everyone setting up different companies and taking advantage of the administration process. I don't think the actual Leeds United playing side was ever liquidated. As far as I understand, Rangers are one step behind and there are no other companies involved other than The Rangers FC, the one that is the football club, the one that owes all the debts and the one that will get liquidated. I'm would be delighted to be corrected if that's not the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 In my extremely limited knowledge, I believe Ken Bates was one step ahead of everyone setting up different companies and taking advantage of the administration process. I don't think the actual Leeds United playing side was ever liquidated. As far as I understand, Rangers are one step behind and there are no other companies involved other than The Rangers FC, the one that is the football club, the one that owes all the debts and the one that will get liquidated. I'm would be delighted to be corrected if that's not the case. This. I also have extremely limited knowledge of this whole admin/liquidation/reforming malarkey, but a lot of my mates are Leeds fans and went through a hell of a time when their excrement/ventilation interface happened. The upshot appeared to be that Chairman Ken stayed one step ahead of League/FA regulations to maintain continuity and limit damage to the club, and Leeds got a double points deduction, some say as a punishment for Ken being smarter than the authorities. I assume, then, that rangers should be OK as long as they've got somebody as bright as that onboard...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: KTID 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrugalNory Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I'm getting a tad confused. To recap, the options as I understand it are: Exit admin via CVA, club and history intact. Unless a sheik buys them this would probably involve a fire sale including wage bill and maybe the stadium (like Leeds). Liquidation. The club dies and another takes it place. New history, new entity. Needs to apply for league membership to sfl and / or spl. Is this correct? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 This. I also have extremely limited knowledge of this whole admin/liquidation/reforming malarkey, but a lot of my mates are Leeds fans and went through a hell of a time when their excrement/ventilation interface happened. The upshot appeared to be that Chairman Ken stayed one step ahead of League/FA regulations to maintain continuity and limit damage to the club, and Leeds got a double points deduction, some say as a punishment for Ken being smarter than the authorities. I assume, then, that rangers should be OK as long as they've got somebody as bright as that onboard...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: KTID Good. Sounds like we're on the right lines anyway. I think you're right about the double points penalty. I remember everyone being fuming at Bates manipulating the system. They changed things afterwards to make sure you couldn't go into admin at a time that suited the club therefore avoiding damaging points deductions. Definitely not liquidation though which was the key point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I'm getting a tad confused. To recap, the options as I understand it are: Exit admin via CVA, club and history intact. Unless a sheik buys them this would probably involve a fire sale including wage bill and maybe the stadium (like Leeds). Liquidation. The club dies and another takes it place. New history, new entity. Needs to apply for league membership to sfl and / or spl. Is this correct? Mibees aye, mibees naw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 You lot need to get away from Scotland for a break. I was just down to Newcastle for the weekend & it was brilliant, not a single mention of the OF or anything. It was fantastic! So, now I'm back, are they dead yet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I'm getting a tad confused. To recap, the options as I understand it are: Exit admin via CVA, club and history intact. Unless a sheik buys them this would probably involve a fire sale including wage bill and maybe the stadium (like Leeds). Liquidation. The club dies and another takes it place. New history, new entity. Needs to apply for league membership to sfl and / or spl. Is this correct? Roughly along those lines Of course you can use administration to dump your useless manager and assistant manager, clear out all of your duff players and screw over local suppliers whilst still thinking youre an SPL team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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