The Master Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Thanks to folk for answering my earlier question about Ticketus being done, which should show that I don't really understand these things. So is the following a possible sequence of events that could have happened or is there no chance? Whyte goes to Ticketus for the £24million. Ticketus agree and give it to Wavetower/Rangers Group Ltd - backing up Alastair Johnston's claim the money went into some other account On buying Rangers FC Ltd (or whatever) Whyte payes Lloyds £18million to from Rangers Group Ltd to clear the debt Rangers FC Ltd now owe Rangers Group Ltd £18million. The remaining £6million is resting in Group Ltd's account Father Ted style or is used for running costs, taking Rangers FC Ltd's loan up to £24million Whyte/Rangers Group Ltd is secured creditor and Ticketus aren't affected because their beef is with Group Ltd not FC Ltd. As I said, possible or not? And if not, where have I gone wrong? Can a loan be secured against another company? So...Rangers Group gets a £24m loan from Ticketus, secured against Rangers FC. Rangers Group buys Rangers FC Rangers FC is put into administration, essentially becoming worthless Rangers FC is bought out of administration by another of Whyte's companies Whyte liquidates Rangers group and Ticketus get f**k all Would that be possible? Edited February 16, 2012 by The Master 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Who was meant to be paying tickets back on that scenario? Rangers FC or Rangers Group and if the remaining 6m has not been used does Whyte still have it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Who was meant to be paying tickets back on that scenario? Rangers FC or Rangers Group and if the remaining 6m has not been used does Whyte still have it? Rangers FC would pay Rangers Group to pay Ticketus. I think. I'm not sure where the £6m fits in here. It could be that although there's no sign of £24m from Ticketus, there might be from another source, i.e. Rangers Group. So the £6m is in Rangers FC's bank account. Edited February 16, 2012 by The Master 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
printer Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 all that was revealed was that whyte had agreed to sell so many season tickets to ticketus over 3 years for £24m prior to his takeover. there was never any confirmation of the details. people then assumed that rangers owed ticketus the season tickets or £24m. if that had happened ticketus would be a creditor and up shit creek. according to the administrators ticketus aren't a creditor and i think it's safe to assume that since whyte hasn't fucked them over they must be in cahoots. Another one of Whyte's companies. the question is why would ticketus/octopus get involved in the first place? they would need to be pretty sure whyte can get his £18m back out of rangers which is extremely dodgy imo. there are easier ways to make money. I suspect it may work like this: The holding company get a loan from Ticketus. That loan is probably subject to a personal guarantee from Whyte, so effectively safe. The loan will also carry a decent short term return, probably in the form of a fee. So worthwhile for Ticketus. The holding company then loans the money received from Ticketus in turn to Rangers. That money being used to pay off the bank debt. Since the purchase of Rangers by the holding company, funds have been used to repay a reasonable chunk of this loan. I expect that the indebtedness of Rangers to the holdng company has been reduced as far as possible. I'd guess now less than £10m. Ticketus are happy as they make a good short term profit with no real risk as the debt is backed by a personal guarantee from Whyte. They are outwith the financial problems of Rangers. Whyte is happy as his holding company is a secured creditor and will have the remainder of any loan paid in full. It's effectively just an in and out for him in any case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Since the purchase of Rangers by the holding company, funds have been used to repay a reasonable chunk of this loan. I expect that the indebtedness of Rangers to the holdng company has been reduced as far as possible. I'd guess now less than £10m. would that not reduce whyte's preferred creditor status? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Perhaps some of the Dundee fans on here will remember more about this, but I am sure something was said about the SFA/SFL wanting to warn clubs that using tax money to fund a short fall would end up with penalties such as the 25 point deduction the Dens park mob got last season. No doubt the SPL will not have signed up to such a rule. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz FFC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Jesus feck, when Whyte pulls a scam he really does it well. Are they making an oceans 14, cause I know a guy they can get onboard with? Edited February 16, 2012 by Gaz FFC 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
printer Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 would that not reduce whyte's preferred creditor status? It would reduce the amount he is owed, but not his status as the secured creditor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin M Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Various outlets have reported that Whyte's preferred creditor status is in question. Rangerstaxcase blog seems of the opinion that it looks like Whyte conned Ticketus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p&b is a disgrace Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 And where's the Ticketus "upfront lump-sum" gone? Its tucked away along with HMRC's 9m, 5m from the pie sales and the cash from the Jellyfish sale to support the relaunch of Rangers2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 rangers press conference......ps we have a really good feeling about tomorrow nites euro lottery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17067141 Oh dear 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Various outlets have reported that Whyte's preferred creditor status is in question. Rangerstaxcase blog seems of the opinion that it looks like Whyte conned Ticketus. the administrator said they were going to look into his status. i think the blog is clutching at straws, they are apparently suggesting he switched the names on the contract without them noticing . the guy writing the blog is a desperado. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin M Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 the administrator said they were going to look into his status. i think the blog is clutching at straws, they are apparently suggesting he switched the names on the contract without them noticing . the guy writing the blog is a desperado. A lot of his info and contributors have been good and proved right - but a lot of it is just theorizing. He obviously has/had great info on the big tax case which the media have since recycled despite initially rubbishing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 So if I've been following things correctly, Whyte buys Rangers FC Ltd through a holding company, pays Lloyds 18 million through an Octopus. The money from projected sales of pies goes into an offshore EBT which has been secured against a 24 million loan from Ticketus, through Whyte's Hightower, offset against the Jelavic money which currently resides in a carboard box under the bed. 9 months of unpaid tax is in the tea caddy at Murray Park - but the administrators had coffee, so were unable to comment. 49 million, plus penalties, hasn't caused HMRC to ask for two sugars and a chunky Kit Kat with theirs yet. Alex Salmond and David Cameron have bought tickets for the Killie end on Saturday, and Ticketus are nothing to do with anything, they don't know nuthin' about anythin'. I think that's it. He would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those pesky kids. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Okay, let me get this straight.... There is a guy called Whitehouse involved and Swiss Tony is in the thick of it. This week I will be mostly smelling shite. Edited February 16, 2012 by Drooper 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeps01 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) This thread should have some jazz playing in the background. This fucking shyster has so many people on the end of a string he should be called Gepetto. The whole of Scottish Football will suffer after this and he will walk away with his pockets full. Rangers will suffer, and I'm sorry to fellow gers fans for saying this, but not as much as they should.Sir David and the board under his tenure, should be taking a long hard look at themselves. They are the culpable party in this and should be brought to task. Not one mention of a court case for them yet . If HMRC decide this was against the law....... Edited February 16, 2012 by keeps01 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 This thread should have some jazz playing in the background. Nice! Sorry, I'm on a roll 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 One thing puzzles me ... Craig Whyte said that the money from Ticketus was to be used for building the team. It was not going to be used to pay off debt, be transferred to Wavetower or whatever. On no account was he taking money up front off the supporters for the next 4 years for any other purpose than developing Rangers. Was he not telling the truth? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeus Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 One thing puzzles me ... Craig Whyte said that the money from Ticketus was to be used for building the team. It was not going to be used to pay off debt, be transferred to Wavetower or whatever. On no account was he taking money up front off the supporters for the next 4 years for any other purpose than developing Rangers. Was he not telling the truth? I cant imagine he would lie, that would be wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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