Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Florentine_Pogen]

Mentioned on KDS......

JupiterFX writes :-

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChat.asp?page=1&ShareTicker=RFC

Genius : They have taken the amount they spent in six months (£16.7m)from the amount they earned in a year (£13.2m) and tried to fool everyone into thinking they've only lost another £3.5m.

In fact they have burnt through £17.5M cash reserves, and the £3.5M as of 31 December is long gone
They are bleeding away over £2m a month hence the need for crisis loans and desperation of season ticket sales.
However,there are some very clever accountants behind this. For Graham Wallace to stand up and present this spin with a straight face is quite incredible. Should we expect his resignation prior to the 120 day Red Herring?

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So in summary,the company lost £14.4M last year, and burned through another £17.5M in cash reserves, and another £1.5M in crisis loans. They were insolvent in February. All the IPO funds have gone. Then they cleverly present 7 months expenditure and set it off against a year's income, and arrive at a loss of £3.5M, then sell it as progress. If all you read are the headlines,as will be the case with most fans, a loss of £3.5M this year is considerable progress on a £14.4M loss. Chapeaux to Mr Nash and Deloitte. This is spin of the highest order. I trust Deloitte received their fee in advance.

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If we take the leaked losses of circa £700K per month, and use the interims, the monthly operating costs are £1.3M. The £5.2M for the first 4 months would be met with a small contribution of £200K at the end of April. In May they expect season ticket income and Scottish Cup revenue. The £1.5M loan was exactly what was required to get them to the close season. An insolvency event will not be necessary until such time as ST sales revenues either run out, or are severely diminished by King's initiative. Therefore it would seem that the £700K losses area thing of the past. How did they achieve this?

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TRFC are spending £33.4M per annum against income of £13.2M. This is an operating deficit (Loss) of £20.2M. Therefore their losses are not £700,000 per month, as previously suggested by commentators like PMG. They are much worse. They are losing £1,683, 333 pounds per month. The £3.5M on 31/12/13 and the crisos loan of £1.5M, will only last 3 months (with a shortfall of £30K). April's costs and payroll are now in jeopardy. Should we expect a Laxey loan then? Will it be spun as always planned for? Or will the company throw in the towel and file for an insolvency event this season so as to forego a 25 points penalty in the Championship? Make mo mistake about. These results are disastrous. TRFC are teetering on the brink of administration. Dave King is being lined up as the scapegoat for an event that was planned some months ago.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Florentine_Pogen

[Hipster Dufus]

@pieandbov: RT @BBCAlLamont: Rangers say proposed withholding of season ticket money means there is "material uncertainty" over ability to continue as going concern......

"Material uncertainty" - does that mean they are struggling to cut their cloth accordingly?

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

Mentioned on KDS......

JupiterFX writes :-

Genius : They have taken the amount they spent in six months (£16.7m)from the amount they earned in a year (£13.2m) and tried to fool everyone into thinking they've only lost another £3.5m.

Utter bollocks.

[1320Lichtie]

I had a bet on with my Rangers supporting pal on at the start of the season, £20 they would drop 25 points or more (which wont happen unless liquidation) and £20 they would not reach the semi finals of the Scottish/League Cup (which they achieved due to the shite draw) so I am currently £40 down (although not as skint as The Rangers) What are the chances percentage wise of liquidation and them losing 25 points, guesstimates here?? like we talking 80 percent it wont happen to 20 it will or what?

Help would be appreciated

Edited March 27, 2014 by 1320Lichtie

[AberdeenBud]

[Florentine_Pogen]

Utter bollocks.

I'm all ears Joey. Rather than just jerk your knee, explain please, for all of us folk that are obviously far dimmer than you.

[Mark Connolly]

Any sensible bookie would pay out now, although you could get out on a technicality, Rangers would not be deducted 25 points for liquidation.

Why would that be then?

[aofjays]

Any sensible bookie would pay out now, although you could get out on a technicality, Rangers would not be deducted 25 points for liquidation.

You're right. Rangers died, they can't be docked anything. The rangers can be though.

[aofjays]

Why would that be then?

Dead.

[Mark Connolly]

Admin perhaps but liquidation would = another newco event.

I'm not up to speed on the rules (not that it matters, they'd probably change them), but would liquidation before the season's end result in all Rangers' results being expunged? Assuming they couldn't complete the fixtures - completion of the season would probably, as you suggest, result in another reset.

[1320Lichtie]

Admin perhaps but liquidation would = another newco event.

I see I worded it wrongly, my mistake, administration brings the points deduction?

And for what its worth I do hate the fact that this could happen as there are a lot of decent Rangers fans out there who have been taken the piss out of, but the fact that there is also so many idiots who wished our game went corrupt becuase there club was and the way Rangers have handled thereselves whilst being in the lower leagues will soften the blow, farce from start to finish!

[Mark Connolly]

Technically incorrect on 2 counts.

If it was straight liquidation then it would be a newco entering at the bottom again.

If they are a new club then penalty for admin is 15 points not 25, 25 points is for clubs having another insolvency event within 5 years.

Those are all the big ifs though - would they get voted back in this time? And are they a new club? I'd suggest they'd go down the 25 point route if they got admin before the end of the season - now the league is wrapped up, it's probably more in their interest.

Had they been less than 25 ahead, it would have been an interesting dilemma.

[AberdeenBud]

It looks like the new rules have (perhaps unsurprisingly) been written with this kind of scenario in mind.

The "owned and operated" section makes it pretty clear to me it would be interpreted as same club/25 point deduction for an insolvency event.

[Billy Jean King]

Yes and it depends on how they interpret things.

New club = 15 points

Same club = 10+15 points

Dunno what happens if they enter and exit admin during the close season to shed some debts.

Im sure one of the lower league English clubs tried and "end of season" admin a few years back once they were officially safe from relelgation after any points deduction and I think the English FA then legislated to prevent that happening with any points deduction being carried forward to the next season. How that would work in a promotion situation rather than a relegation scenario I'm not sure also just because it's legislated against down south doesn't mean it will be up here. Very clever work by the board here as it's now a case of the ball being in the Sevco fans court. Buy your season ticket and save the club or follow King and it's another insolvency event. Cunning !!!

[Ross.]

Im sure one of the lower league English clubs tried and "end of season" admin a few years back once they were officially safe from relelgation after any points deduction and I think the English FA then legislated to prevent that happening with any points deduction being carried forward to the next season. How that would work in a promotion situation rather than a relegation scenario I'm not sure also just because it's legislated against down south doesn't mean it will be up here. Very clever work by the board here as it's now a case of the ball being in the Sevco fans court. Buy your season ticket and save the club or follow King and it's another insolvency event. Cunning !!!

Pretty sure Southampton tried it.

[weirdcal]

Shite results.

Operating costs have actually risen, despite a significant drop in playing wages.

No detail at all on the Sports direct deal.

Cash has reduced by £18M.

Still losing around half a million per month.

in the past 12 months they have spent £4M on assets that are not yet generating incremental revenue.

Delivered with a thinly veiled threat, buy ST`s bears or you are fucked, but do not ask any questions or the Easdales will sue you.

Tedi, its good to see you back and openly questioning the running of your team / club / company (delete as you wish to read)

its good to see the discussion on the BRALT actually focussing on news and not tit for tat speculation for a change.

edit: add in the BRALT part so it doesnt read incorrectly as a pot shot at tedi

Edited March 27, 2014 by weirdcal

[BigBadSaint]

Operating expenses of £16.8m (£16.6m for the 7 months ended 31 December 2012)

So it's cost more to run over last 6 months than it did the previous 7

Reduced loss before tax, excluding non-recurring items of £3.5m (£7.2m for the 7 months ended 31 December 2012)

£3.5m loss doesn't include any tax due or any of these multitude of one off payment and legal costs just regular running cost

added to £7.2m for the seven month period.......................................... that's about £10million loss on a 12 month period?

Cash reserves of £3.5m, down from £21.2m the previous year.............that's £17.7 million

What did they spend the other near £8 million on ?

They really are tonking through startling amounts of money for 2 seasons in the lower leagues.

The majority of the money raised from the IPO in December 2012 had been spent by June 2013 on IPO related fees and commissions, severance payments, the purchases of the Albion car park and Edmiston House and to fund ongoing operating losses

£20 odd million in 6 months for stock market launch payoffs and getting your own stuff back to then remortage?

In addition, operating costs had been running at a rate that could not be sustained by the revenue being generated by the Club. For example, in the period under review, nine players were signed at a time when the Club already had the second highest wage bill in Scottish football whilst playing in the third tier.

Winning stuff with a team that the club simply can't afford...again

I am delighted to be able to report that Rangers has been confirmed as Champions of SPFL League One for Season 2013/14

Alistair McCoist, his staff and players should be congratulated on their performances and achievement throughout the period.

But having admitted running at a rate that could not be sustained by the revenue being generated by the Club lets celebrate it anyway.

What's going on at Ibrox is absolutely mind numbing !

[Ross.]

Tedi, given the board have essentially said that a Season Ticket boycott will lead to administration, do you think it's wise to try them and find out? Or has it got to the stage where really you have no choice but to find out?

[~~~]

If buying a ST could guarantee survival for another year then perhaps but even with the 25% increase in prices that I am hearing a rumor of it would not generate enough cash for the club to last the season, costs need drastically cut now, especially at board room and management level £9M is utterly ludicrous, it should be £1-£2M.

These guys are only in it for the short term, if we all renewed the club would still run out of money around xmas next year and would then sell of its remaining assets to raise capital, for me this is crossing the line and I will not blindly walk into it, better off we find out what their end game is now rather than later.

Between a rock and a hard place I believe is the expression

[Ross.]

If buying a ST could guarantee survival for another year then perhaps but even with the 25% increase in prices that I am hearing a rumor of it would not generate enough cash for the club to last the season, costs need drastically cut now, especially at board room and management level £9M is utterly ludicrous, it should be £1-£2M.

These guys are only in it for the short term, if we all renewed the club would still run out of money around xmas next year and would then sell of its remaining assets to raise capital, for me this is crossing the line and I will not blindly walk into it, better off we find out what their end game is now rather than later.

I think that you are correct in thinking that if you continue to pay up it will continue to be the same, but I can't really see any other scenario now that will be that much better for the club. The folk with influence are in it for the money and they will get their money one way or another. I also think that they are there for as long as they can continue to make something, and I don't think they see it as a short term money making enterprise. The 120 day review should be interesting from that point of view.

One thing I am certain about mind you is that when the alternative to what you have is Dave King and the approach he is saying he will take, you are pretty much fucked either way.