Jimmy85 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Well we're never going to be able to buy GM out, so in that respect the figures aren't really important. What is important, is him accepting the principle that there are people & groups of people out there, willing to invest in the club, but they're no longer willing to pour money into the black hole he's created, and the days of him exerting total control need to end. Yep, he has a lot invested in there but it's not really worth much if the shutters go up. GM doesn't want to give up complete control of the club. Hence the boardroom spilt. The directors walked out because they wanted more say but GM was having none of it. He has a stranglehold on the club and considering the the sums of money involved there's very little anyone can do about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_no_1 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) GM doesn't want to give up complete control of the club. Hence the boardroom spilt. The directors walked out because they wanted more say but GM was having none of it. He has a stranglehold on the club and considering the the sums of money involved there's very little anyone can do about it. Am I being unbelievably dense? Isn't non-payment of tax against the law? If we have used tax money to pay wages etc surely those in charge are liable & should be prosecuted? Edited November 8, 2012 by da_no_1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 GM doesn't want to give up complete control of the club. Hence the boardroom spilt. The directors walked out because they wanted more say but GM was having none of it. He has a stranglehold on the club and considering the the sums of money involved there's very little anyone can do about it. You as fans and as a club have my sympathies, however, GM comes across as Fifes Vlad. I do not see this ending well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raith Against The Machine Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I'll say one thing about this whole mess, and the Hearts situation too. Now is the time for everyone to stop standing with buckets at the away ends of grounds, and time for away fans to stop chipping in. If you've got money to spare, give it to your own club. That goes for everyone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy85 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Am I being unbelievably dense? Isn't non-payment of tax against the law? If we have used tax money to pay wages etc surely those in charge are liable & should be prosecuted? The money isn't due 'till the 19th and 21st of this month. £50k initially then a further £31k a couple of days later. So technically we are up to date. For a couple of weeks anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I'll say one thing about this whole mess, and the Hearts situation too. Now is the time for everyone to stop standing with buckets at the away ends of grounds, and time for away fans to stop chipping in. If you've got money to spare, give it to your own club. That goes for everyone. I disagree. We are all in this to some extent. And if we are all going down - sooner or later - let it be that we were there for each other. Maybe it's futile but we have a duty as fans who understand what supporting a team is to do what we can. If we abandon the collective idea of supporting each other, if we decide only to help ourselves even if that wont ultimately help - then we give yp on what scottish football is about. I really dont like the pars but I'll be damned if if i dont give back to those fans who helped us oit when the shite happened. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 2012/13 Budget DAFC First team cost is on budget and performance on the park is fantastic however first team and commercial income is lower than forecast = economic recession impacting on several areas of income = lower number of home friendlies than forecast = lack of home games = early exit from ramsdens cup = attendances lower than anticipated - downward trend across Scotland = = home crowd average 3700 = = add a further 500 to the crowd - £6,500 plus per match = = away crowds at home games - Livingston 173, Cowdenbeath 247 = commercial income down - fewer companies spending money on advertising = hospitality income down - fewer companies spending money on entertaining = result - loss year to date (end Sept) £137k (£61k worse than forecast) All of the above has created cash flow pressure. HMRC largest creditor Pressure -Only one home game in November. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raith Against The Machine Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I disagree. We are all in this to some extent. And if we are all going down - sooner or later - let it be that we were there for each other. Maybe it's futile but we have a duty as fans who understand what supporting a team is to do what we can. If we abandon the collective idea of supporting each other, if we decide only to help ourselves even if that wont ultimately help - then we give yp on what scottish football is about. I really dont like the pars but I'll be damned if if i dont give back to those fans who helped us oit when the shite happened. It seems to me like we're getting into a similar situation to a post I saw in General Nonsense the other day, from a lad who's Mum and his Auntie give each other cheque's for the same amount each Christmas. I go to your game and put a fiver in a bucket, then you come to me the week after and do the same. I do see your point though, it encourages a sense of camaraderie that wouldn't be there otherwise. I'm in no way against helping out other clubs, I just think it'd be simpler if everyone stuck to helping out their own clubs at the moment, until such times as we've got a few stabilised, and then we can focus on helping the weak. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonface Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Surprised to see that no-one has suggested players and staff agreeing to a wage cut. It's the single largest running expense for your club and it would make an immediate difference to the short-term viability of the club. I fully acknowledge it's not the players fault that the club have agreed unsustainable contracts with them; however, if they aren't prepared to take a cut then the club is clearly going to be out of business and they'll be unemployed and have no income. Without being disrespectful to the Pars squad, while they have some decent players, none of them are going to be snapped up and offered more lucrative contracts elsewhere in the way that some Rangers players were being courted when that went pear-shaped. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I'd be willing to bet that other teams in the league would be willing to give a shot to Morris,Jordan,McMillan,Cardle,Falkingham,Geggan or Wallace. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_no_1 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I think most if not all Div 1 teams are budgeted to the max & are wisely keeping within those budgets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I'd be willing to bet that other teams in the league would be willing to give a shot to Morris,Jordan,McMillan,Cardle,Falkingham,Geggan or Wallace. Alas Grant, this would be the equivalent of a yard/fire sale, see Raith almost giving away players to Livingston a few years ago. No way will you achieve their true value. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lanarkshire Jag Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) = lack of home games You've played 10 league games. 5 at home. 5 away. Same as everyone else. Where is the "lack of home games"? = early exit from ramsdens cup Would the Ramsdens Cup really have made that much of a difference. = attendances lower than anticipated - downward trend across Scotland = = home crowd average 3700 Is that not the biggest crowd average in SFL1? Where is the money generated from these crowds being placed? = = away crowds at home games - Livingston 173, Cowdenbeath 247 Why are small away crowds to be blamed for Dunfermline's financial difficulties? Not a dig at Grant but i don't understand why this budget tries to point the finger at some many things. If Dunfermline didn't have such a high budget, then they would not be in these financial difficulties. Is it as simple as that? ETA: What is this statement for? Can someone provide a link/context for it? Edited November 8, 2012 by South Lanarkshire Jag 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy85 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 We have plenty of players who would be in the starting 11 for other clubs in this division. Unfortunately absolutely none of them would command a fee of any sort. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parscelona Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 I don't even know where to begin with that statement. What the hell does "lack of home games mean?" We've had more home games than away games this season. Sure in November we've only got one home game, yet up to this point, we haven't had less home games than anyone else. Also i'm not convinced about their home crowd average figure as ESPN has our average attendance at 3,799, which by the way is the second highest in the SFL and is higher than our average attendance (3,624) for the season we won the league. What sort of crowds were these zoomers aiming for? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lanarkshire Jag Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I think most if not all Div 1 teams are budgeted to the max & are wisely keeping within those budgets. Thistle definitely are. When we were head to head with St. Johnstone and gunning for promotion we were offered a striker - John Sutton. We were offered the chance to sign him on-loan for £500 a week wages. It wasn't in our budget, so we never signed him, and we could argue that he'd have been the guy to fire us to the SPL. Thistle have been close to the fire quite a few times lately, we sold Harkins to pay off the tax man. We've done the whole "save the jags" thing. Never again. Club first. SPL second. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonface Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I'd be willing to bet that other teams in the league would be willing to give a shot to Morris,Jordan,McMillan,Cardle,Falkingham,Geggan or Wallace. I agree - but would they be offered as lucrative contracts as they currently have at Dunfermline? Probaby not. If there were a few mercenaries on the playing staff at Dunfermline that genuinely didn't give a f*ck for the team then surely you'd want them out and off the payroll right away. If those players that were left were prepared to take some form of wage cut then at least the club would have a fighting chance of staying in existance. Part of the (self-inflicted) problem for all football clubs is that the players have too much protection. If I was running a business that was on the brink and immediate redundancies, wage cuts and other employment adjustments were the only route for survival then I'd be able to take it to the staff and reach agreement (or otherwise). Try that approach at a football club and the SPFA and every other governing body will jump all over that business and kill it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Alas Grant, this would be the equivalent of a yard/fire sale, see Raith almost giving away players to Livingston a few years ago. No way will you achieve their true value. I would be highly surprised if we got a penny for all of them, what I was meaning was that they would get a contract at most other 1st division teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I disagree. We are all in this to some extent. And if we are all going down - sooner or later - let it be that we were there for each other. Maybe it's futile but we have a duty as fans who understand what supporting a team is to do what we can. If we abandon the collective idea of supporting each other, if we decide only to help ourselves even if that wont ultimately help - then we give yp on what scottish football is about. I really dont like the pars but I'll be damned if if i dont give back to those fans who helped us oit when the shite happened. I want to agree with this, but can't. Fans have been treated as mug punters for too long by football clubs and their boards. They go out of their way to pretend they're not an ordinary business and run silly, reckless, unsustainable business models. They then have the cheek to guilt-trip the fans with the 'we're a business' line when the shit hits the fan, as some sort of plea for the fans to bail them out. It's disgusting, frankly. I'm well aware my own club could go down the shitter, but I have no sympathy for clubs that go bust. I feel for the employees, but the consequences of reckless spending should be well known to any semi-competent businessman. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lanarkshire Jag Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 If we're going down immoral routes: Have the players been paid for November? If not, withhold their wages. Use their wages to try and get in HMRC's good books. Like a " we can't pay it all, but here's X of it, the rest will be paid Monday after the next home game". That way players will be in breach of contract, and free to leave. Get rid of your high earners. Play the under 19s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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