Walking Down The Halbeath Road

[CallumPar]

Ok, regarding other creditors, see the below from accounting policies on Turnover:

“Season tickets sales are deferred, and together with gate receipts and other matchday revenue, recognised throughout the football season as games are played. Sponsorship and other commercial revenue is recognised over the duration of the respective contracts.”

Makes me believe that accruing these income streams will be the majority of the ‘other creditors’ balance.

[Well over Par]

Thanks @CallumPar for your analysis and thoughts. Much appreciated mate 

[CallumPar]

5 minutes ago, Well over Par said:

Thanks @CallumPar for your analysis and thoughts. Much appreciated mate 

No worries, I just hope it was useful. As I say, I wanted to do that sort of thing for my own benefit anyway, so was happy to post it in here in case others found it useful at all.

[101]

54 minutes ago, North West said:

If he had then it's another salary we'll now be paying. 

Why?

[parsboi]

3 hours ago, Well over Par said:

Except we are going to have another big loss this year too so that doesn’t wash I’m afraid. No reason to doubt this info as the info I got on this loss was bang on 

Never said it was acceptable.  But you have to dig under the headlines for the detail - and as Callum summarises, very hard to get true detail.

This was always going to be the case selling shares to investors who then control the club, we don’t have the same insights as previous when it comes to pouring over figures.  If GmbH don’t want to disclose detail, then they don’t have to.  They will soon own 80% of the club, and it’s their baby at that point.   

[North West]

It is their baby as you put it, but it's collectively our club and it'll remain our club long after they're gone. It's needs treated with respect and dignity. Let's hope their strategy pays off and we prosper. 

[DA87]

I'll support the Pars regardless of the published books. The comeback is always better than the setbacks. 

[North West]

10 minutes ago, DA87 said:

I'll support the Pars regardless of the published books. The comeback is always better than the setbacks. 

We almost didn't comeback in 2013, and wouldn't have done if it weren't for a few willing to get the ball rolling. 

That said a comeback is always good. 

[DA87]

11 minutes ago, North West said:

We almost didn't comeback in 2013, and wouldn't have done if it weren't for a few willing to get the ball rolling. 

That said a comeback is always good. 

So there was almost no point in saying your first point. 

[North West]

9 minutes ago, DA87 said:

So there was almost no point in saying your first point. 

Reference to comebacks as is in matches. Think 4-3 against Airdrie as an example.

[Wacky]

So! What’s our chances against Ayr tomorrow? 
If Kane is back along with Jak and Matty we could possibly get something out this game. 
Could we see our first win at EEP since we beat Arbroath back in November? 
 

[Wacky]

What is all the permutations for us now? Do people believe the Germans will cut their losses and walk away? I don’t think they will. People in business speculate to accumulate all the time, and looking at their other businesses these guys appear to be pretty good at business ventures, so I’ve no reason to think they will fail in this one without a good fight. 
I understand that we are all bricking it after everything that happened in 2013, but what can fans realistically do about it? Withdraw our support and stop buying season ticket’s? I don’t see where that would help the situation, in fact wouldn’t that only hasten the scenario of the club folding?
So what else is there? Do we march along the Halbeath Road mob handed demanding……… what exactly would we demand?

Many fans are making noises of discontent right now, what would make you feel more content? 

Their resignation? A further breakdown of accounts? Assurances that they have things under control (which many appear to not believe that right now) What do you want from the board to ease your fears? 
IMO, the only thing we can do is run with it and be prepared try our best to pick up the pieces if it all goes horribly wrong, unless some of you have a plan that these guys haven’t thought of? 

[Chubbychops]

This 1 millions loss must've been paid somehow. We have no bank debt, so I'm guessing the owners have either covered the loss or gone down the Masterton soft loan route.

[AuldReekie]

The losses are pretty much what I expected (probably slightly worse) but when you see it in black and white, it's pretty alarming. Running a full time club, and an expensive one at that, in a part-time league and minimal away fans, during a pretty dire economic climate was always going to burn a tonne of cash. Add in the investments in Rosyth, etc and it's very much a worse case scenario. The difference in financial results compared to our last season in league 1 makes this all the more stark, although I think those figures are incredible in hindsight. In no way would a similar financial performance be possible in the current climate, even if you put the academy investments aside.

My first concern is it's quite clear that relegation would be catastrophic. Current levels of investment would have to be dramatically reduced, but you have to assume the club's future would be at risk again, which would be unforgiveable so soon. There's nothing sustainable about these figures which is at odds with the stated goals of the owners.

My second concern is about transparency. The accounts look very light on detail and the rationale is utterly baffling - the line about planning for a League 1 play-off makes no sense whatsoever. With losses like these, I'd want to see more detail in the accounts that lets us infer why they believe the situation is manageable, or they need to back up the losses with a far more convincing story about their confidence in the business strategy. I'm finding the leadership and communication on business strategy really quite poor and that's not filling me with confidence.

On a positive note, seen photos of the new pitch at Rosyth and it's looking good. I do genuinely think this will be a big benefit for the club in the medium to longer term but it's clear it will have had a significant impact on these financials and the next. I'd be happy just to survive in the Championship this season (and next) until this extra expenditure has gone. Does feel we've taken on way more risk than we should have though.

Edited March 1 by AuldReekie

[Stellaboz]

56 minutes ago, Chubbychops said:

This 1 millions loss must've been paid somehow. We have no bank debt, so I'm guessing the owners have either covered the loss or gone down the Masterton soft loan route.

Remember that a loss isn't solely cash based. 

I was expecting to see a higher level of depreciation but looking at the B/S sheet that's not the case. I can only assume that the higher creditor level is deferred revenue on season tickets or other such income, which should offset in the next years figures. 

Like I said elsewhere though, it's hard to draw a full conclusion without the full set of accounts. 

[CallumPar]

1 hour ago, Chubbychops said:

This 1 millions loss must've been paid somehow. We have no bank debt, so I'm guessing the owners have either covered the loss or gone down the Masterton soft loan route.

We've got the balance sheet, there are no loans there. Loans from directors would be shown as directors loans. The only ‘loans’ are the convertible bonds. Within the accounts, it’s specified that no interest will be paid on these and they will be repaid in shares, so they won’t cost us anything.

This group of investors have already injected over £1.5m cash into the club. I find it really hard to imagine that this is money they plan to just throw away/write off. But they have always said it’s a long term vision, that starts with the academy being set up and the training facility being built. You can’t do either of these things without spending a lot of that money.

I believe that there have been a lot of added costs with planning applications and works needing done in order to gain planning permission. As well as paying people for coming up with detailed plans and others for surveying the land. There will also be costs for legal advice regarding planning permission and probably some fees for getting someone to check over the applications for the government grant - which we’ll have applied for a long time ago. These will be the most significant costs in this set of accounts, I would imagine. Unfortunately, none of these professional services are cheap.

In addition to all of that, we are currently hiring pitches for the first team and all of the academy teams for training and matches. That will not be cheap at all. These costs will no longer be required once the training facilities are ready for action.

[da_no_1]

15 minutes ago, CallumPar said:

This group of investors have already injected over £1.5m cash into the club. I find it really hard to imagine that this is money they plan to just throw away/write off. But they have always said it’s a long term vision, that starts with the academy being set up and the training facility being built. You can’t do either of these things without spending a lot of that money.

I suppose that's the one small glimmer of hope. We really need to be re-assured that they are still confident in everything they are putting in place. 

[Wacky]

20 minutes ago, AuldReekie said:

The losses are pretty much what I expected (probably slightly worse) but when you see it in black and white, it's pretty alarming. Running a full time club, and an expensive one at that, in a part-time league and minimal away fans, during a pretty dire economic climate was always going to burn a tonne of cash. Add in the investments in Rosyth, etc and it's very much a worse case scenario. The difference in financial results compared to our last season in league 1 makes this all the more stark, although I think those figures are incredible in hindsight. In no way would a similar financial performance be possible in the current climate, even if you put the academy investments aside.

My first concern is it's quite clear that relegation would be catastrophic. Current levels of investment would have to be dramatically reduced, but you have to assume the club's future would be at risk again, which would be unforgiveable so soon. There's nothing sustainable about these figures which is at odds with the stated goals of the owners.

My second concern is about transparency. The accounts look very light on detail and the rationale is utterly baffling - the line about planning for a League 1 play-off makes no sense whatsoever. With losses like these, I'd want to see more detail in the accounts that lets us infer why they believe the situation is manageable, or they need to back up the losses with a far more convincing story about their confidence in the business strategy. I'm finding the leadership and communication on business strategy really quite poor and that's not filling me with confidence.

On a positive note, seen photos of the new pitch at Rosyth and it's looking good. I do genuinely think this will be a big benefit for the club in the medium to longer term but it's clear it will have had a significant impact on these financials and the next. I'd be happy just to survive in the Championship this season (and next) until this extra expenditure has gone. Does feel we've taken on way more risk than we should have though.

I really think the board are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

I don’t think they can win either way. Giving us more transparency and detailed accounts will only lead to more sticks than some have right now to beat them with. 
It would appear that the majority of fans are suspicious and untrusting of these guys, a situation that wouldn’t exist to this extent if the team were winning more games. Doesn’t matter to some that many of our most influential players have been out injured, some are still demanding better results, and because it’s not happening they are looking to apportion blame. These same fans were wanting better players in to cover this, but continue to be upset about the club’s expenditure. I’d bet that the biggest majority of fans suspicion would melt away if we were winning regardless of the cost. 
The Germans came in with a long term game plan for our club which I’m still excited about, we’ve clearly hit some big bumps in the road none worse than most of our starting lineup being injured, but regardless, because the team isn’t winning, all trust has went out the window. 

[Wacky]

1 minute ago, da_no_1 said:

I suppose that's the one small glimmer of hope. We really need to be re-assured that they are still confident in everything they are putting in place. 

What more can they do but tell us it’s under control? I don’t think they should break down every penny spent for the world to see. 
 

[CallumPar]

11 minutes ago, da_no_1 said:

I suppose that's the one small glimmer of hope. We really need to be re-assured that they are still confident in everything they are putting in place. 

I agree. I think lack of communication is a big issue here. If the board provided a decent update/reassurances, it would help to avoid the mass panic we’ve seen just now. It’s completely understandable that people are worried, the financial performance is incredibly concerning and I would have hoped for a bit more clarity regarding reasons behind this and the board’s thoughts/opinions on the short-term future and what should be expected.

Lack of communication is a recurring issue with the current board though, we were spoiled with Ross McArthur in that aspect, he was very good at keeping fans informed/updated. An operating update would have been very useful. It would be good to have an idea of how they plan to cut costs, increase revenue etc. and whether everything is still going to plan, or whether plans have changed. We don’t need to know absolutely everything, but some form of update/reassurance would have been beneficial.