Ched Evans

[Dee Man]

Certainly :-

"As nice as that would be in an ideal world, if he is convinced in his own mind that he did nothing wrong then he is hardly likely to feel any sort of pity for the woman who has just deprived him of his liberty for two and a half years. On the contrary, he is more than likely to feel bitterness and resentment towards her which is exactly the way he's acting just now."

Uh huh. Another absolute fist-munchingly horrific contribution here.

Perhaps you don't quite understand how court proceedings work. Maybe I can help educate you here. These aren't people randomly selected off the street in a vox pop style and asked "Ched Evans - bit rapey?". They have been in court and sat through evidence from prosecution and defence and have arrived at a verdict which is absolutely valid, as far as the application of the law is concerned.

Eh, no. Absolute fail.

The "moving the goalposts part" was in response to your really creepy question about "Chedwyn".

Specifically - "As you are so clued up on the details of the case, what part of the evidence did you exactly define as disgraceful behaviour from Chedwyn?"

When you were informed as to exactly what part of "Chedwyn's" admitted behaviour was absolutely abhorrent, suddenly you abandoned this ship mid channel and jumped to another - this time moving past the disgusting nature of "Chedwyn's" behaviour and instead into a discussion as to whether said absolutely disgusting display could warrant a specific jail sentence. Which it does, because those members of the jury found "Chedwyn" guilty, based on the facts presented to them, and a member of the judiciary, in light of said conviction, pronounced a sentence of this magnitude on "Chedwyn".

Jesus Christ.

A) Thank you for quoting the post you were referring to. Now, if you'd like to point out the part you take issue with. This should be interesting as there is absolutely nothing that is disputable in there.

B) Thank you very much for pointing out how the jury selection process works but I am more than familiar with it, having been selected for jury duty myself. I am also very familiar with the law and criminal justice system, having been involved in four serious police and court cases in the last five years and I have been massively let down on each occasion. I'm going to tell you something that you might not like here, but the law and justice system are a complete and utter fucking joke.

To keep a long story short, one of those cases involved a female in Aberdeen who accused me of assaulting her. Amazingly, the female retracted her statement when I pointed out that the non-incident occurred outside of a builders yard which had CCTV and I wanted to get the footage from the yard. At the time I wanted to counter charge her as a successful conviction on me would have fucked me over big time, and I told the police at the time that that is exactly the type of dangerous female that cries rape out of pure spite. The two officers in the room both agreed with me but told me I would be wasting my time.

C) You're all over the shop here with this one. I already told you I was going to take you through it stage by stage and that's exactly what I did. You say I asked you about what part of the incident you found disgraceful behaviour then I "abandoned ship" after you replied. Yet you then say I went on to discuss if you thought the sentence was appropriate - thus, still discussing the same matter

Your astounding primary school playground naivety about the court system shows you up for the gullible fool you clearly are. If you think just because 12 randoms arrived at a decision then that must be the correct one, then I salute your ability to humbly accept your sentence if you ever find yourself on the wrong end of a miscarriage of justice.

Now, let's see if you can reply without attributing words to me that I didn't type or even imply.

[Supras]

not you specifically, but im wondering why there isnt as much condemnation for the likes of Lee Hughes and Luke McCormick, given their crimes were worse

Evans clearly isnt the nicest of guys, even if his appeal is successful, but neither are the other 2 that i posted but they have resumed half decent careers given their crimes resulted in the deaths of an adult and 2 children

Er, cause there actually is condemnation? The severity of their crime is up for debate, the outcome is certainly worse, but they will claim it was accidental (brought out by reckless* or drunk driving). It's a debate that isn't particularly suited to this thread (especially considering it's been discussed already).

But still, lets turn the question, do you think that a rapist should automatically return to their previous employer / line of work? Why?

*In the case of Meppen-Walter.

What is the cut off level he should play at in your opinion? Northern Premier, Welsh Premier...higher....lower? What if he played at that level for a team with a few bob? How much is he allowed to earn?

I don't know what the attendances are like there, my point was more about nobody is physically stopping him from playing football (obviously) and he can continue playing if he likes - at a level where people play for their own enjoyment, and it is not for others entertainment. I.e. somewhere there is nae fans This is an important point - I've said repeatedly it should be very bad for business for any club to hire Evans (as has been proved to be the case with Sheffield United). If you have no fans to begin with, and the other players don't mind, who cares?

And they can pay him whatever they like really, if they have less than 100 people attending the game they will have no money anyway.

you missed out "be specific" so therefore your post is invalid in this part of the forum

Incorrect.

[54_and_counting]

But still, lets turn the question, do you think that a rapist should automatically return to their previous employer / line of work? Why?

if the previous employer is willing to take said person on and deal with the flak then that is their call, if i owned a club i wouldnt take evans back on, but neither would i associate my club with Lee Hughes or Luke McCormick

my point is more regarding the posters on here that claim he shouldnt ever work again

[AberdeenBud]

On a related note, a tory MP has now been accused of rape and he was arrested (but not charged) by the police.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30331569

AS far as I can tell the only real evidence against evans is the same as that against this tory MP. An accusation.

Should he be allowed back to his job?

Trolling here or just confirming your thicko status?

[AberdeenBud]

my point is more regarding the posters on here that claim he shouldnt ever work again

Has anybody actually said this?

[Sergeant Wilson]

Er, cause there actually is condemnation? The severity of their crime is up for debate, the outcome is certainly worse, but they will claim it was accidental (brought out by reckless* or drunk driving). It's a debate that isn't particularly suited to this thread (especially considering it's been discussed already).

But still, lets turn the question, do you think that a rapist should automatically return to their previous employer / line of work? Why?

*In the case of Meppen-Walter.

I don't know what the attendances are like there, my point was more about nobody is physically stopping him from playing football (obviously) and he can continue playing if he likes - at a level where people play for their own enjoyment, and it is not for others entertainment. I.e. somewhere there is nae fans This is an important point - I've said repeatedly it should be very bad for business for any club to hire Evans (as has been proved to be the case with Sheffield United). If you have no fans to begin with, and the other players don't mind, who cares?

And they can pay him whatever they like really, if they have less than 100 people attending the game they will have no money anyway.

Incorrect.

Most clubs in the pyramid get some fans. Some wee teams pay decent money. He could play in Dubai to two men and a camel and be a millionaire. I don't see how you can all criteria to it.

[Supras]

if the previous employer is willing to take said person on and deal with the flak then that is their call, if i owned a club i wouldnt take evans back on, but neither would i associate my club with Lee Hughes or Luke McCormick

my point is more regarding the posters on here that claim he shouldnt ever work again

Er, except they can't take the flak - Sheffield United couldn't. The important thing is that society is giving them enough stick to not hire and promote a convicted unrepentant rapist.

Which poster on here has claimed he shouldn't ever work again? Be extremely specific. I know I have repeatedly stated otherwise since the very beginning of this thread.

Most clubs in the pyramid get some fans. Some wee teams pay decent money. He could play in Dubai to two men and a camel and be a millionaire. I don't see how you can all criteria to it.

I don't know why you're so bothered about such a minor point.

If he plays in front of some camels for a lot of money in Dubai - you're right I don't care. Not sure how keen they are to have convicted unrepentant rapists (given their teams are usually vehicles for publicity) so I think you've got a bit of a moot point on the whole.

[RandomGuy.]

Most clubs in the pyramid get some fans. Some wee teams pay decent money. He could play in Dubai to two men and a camel and be a millionaire. I don't see how you can all criteria to it.

He'd probably enjoy it in Dubai tbh, women who get raped get thrown in jail for having sex outwith marriage and get told to shut up about the whole thing.

[sjc]

I hear Ched Evans got knocked back for a job at his local Cineworld due to the Supras "entertainment" rule.

[Sergeant Wilson]

Er, except they can't take the flak - Sheffield United couldn't. The important thing is that society is giving them enough stick to not hire and promote a convicted unrepentant rapist.

Which poster on here has claimed he shouldn't ever work again? Be extremely specific. I know I have repeatedly stated otherwise since the very beginning of this thread.

I don't know why you're so bothered about such a minor point.

If he plays in front of some camels for a lot of money in Dubai - you're right I don't care. Not sure how keen they are to have convicted unrepentant rapists (given their teams are usually vehicles for publicity) so I think you've got a bit of a moot point on the whole.

I think your willingness to "allow" him to play, but only at a level you consider insignificant detracts from your argument. That level is very subjective. You might think Welsh Premier, I might think any division in Scotland.

[Supras]

I hear Ched Evans got knocked back for a job at his local Cineworld due to the Supras "entertainment" rule.

Are convicted unrepetent rapists allowed to serve young children at Cinemas?

Should they automatically get a job in a cinema they apply for?

I think your willingness to "allow" him to play, but only at a level you consider insignificant detracts from your argument. That level is very subjective. You might think Welsh Premier, I might think any division in Scotland.

Er, no, because I've explained exactly where it stops being an issue - i.e. when there stops being fans (or there's so few fans, it might as well just be parents of the players). The objection of fans is what is stopping him from playing at a high level, people aren't comfortable paying to watch unrepetant convicted rapists.

But still, your shtick seems to be to ask hypothetical questions, I give a reasoned response, and then you say my response is wrong and there is no answer to the question. Your Dubai example was inappropriate because they would never hire Ched Evans - why would they? They hire people like Cannavaro because they are going to massively, and positively, increase the brand of the club. Evans would do the opposite.

And don't sit on the fence, I've outlined the level he could play at (where there are no fans to oppose his inclusion), why don't you tell what level you think Evans should automatically return to?

Lots of posters dancing round the issue and completely failing to nail their colours to the mast. Take the plunge.

[sjc]

I'd be more concerned that he was out of prison on licence if he was still deemed a risk to the general public to be honest.

[Sergeant Wilson]

Are convicted unrepetent rapists allowed to serve young children at Cinemas?

Should they automatically get a job in a cinema they apply for?

Er, no, because I've explained exactly where it stops being an issue - i.e. when there stops being fans (or there's so few fans, it might as well just be parents of the players). The objection of fans is what is stopping him from playing at a high level, people aren't comfortable paying to watch unrepetant convicted rapists.

But still, your shtick seems to be to ask hypothetical questions, I give a reasoned response, and then you say my response is wrong and there is no answer to the question. Your Dubai example was inappropriate because they would never hire Ched Evans - why would they? They hire people like Cannavaro because they are going to massively, and positively, increase the brand of the club. Evans would do the opposite.

And don't sit on the fence, I've outlined the level he could play at (where there are no fans to oppose his inclusion), why don't you tell what level you think Evans should automatically return to?

Lots of posters dancing round the issue and completely failing to nail their colours to the mast. Take the plunge.

I've already said there is no lawful impediment to him playing anywhere.I don't think the law should be changed. It's up to the prospective employer. I also said he should have held off until after the review.

[Supras]

I'd be more concerned that he was out of prison on licence if he was still deemed a risk to the general public to be honest.

Uh, you do understand the concept of the sexual offenders, right?

Or is everyone who is left prison automatically considered to be no risk to the general public whatsoever?

Righto.

I've already said there is no lawful impediment to him playing anywhere.

You've said it? I've been saying it repeatedly since page 4 or something. This isn't a revelation at all.

I don't think the law should be changed.

Yes, I have also stated this explicitly on the thread.

It's up to the prospective employer.

Obviously, and it seems that society is winning and high profile entertainment employers are not hiring an unrepentant convicted rapist - because it is bad for business. I have never said at any point there should be a law against employers hiring rapists - indeed I've stated this isn't my position repeatedly.

I also said he should have held off until after the review.

If his appeal is successful the picture changes - obviously.

Now, despite repeating things I have already stated on this thread, do you think that Sheffield United should have signed Ched Evans? Do you think he should automatically return to his previous line of work / previous employer? Would you support a decision of your football club to hire and promote a convicted unrepentant rapist?

Be specific, now. Would be good to get a return on my very specific answers above.

[Addie]

If the convicted rapist Ched Evans started posting on here, I would still find him a better poster than supras.

[Sergeant Wilson]

Uh, you do understand the concept of the sexual offenders, right?

Or is everyone who is left prison automatically considered to be no risk to the general public whatsoever?

Righto.

You've said it? I've been saying it repeatedly since page 4 or something. This isn't a revelation at all.

Yes, I have also stated this explicitly on the thread.

Obviously, and it seems that society is winning and high profile entertainment employers are not hiring an unrepentant convicted rapist - because it is bad for business. I have never said at any point there should be a law against employers hiring rapists - indeed I've stated this isn't my position repeatedly.

If his appeal is successful the picture changes - obviously.

Now, despite repeating things I have already stated on this thread, do you think that Sheffield United should have signed Ched Evans? Do you think he should automatically return to his previous line of work / previous employer? Would you support a decision of your football club to hire and promote a convicted unrepentant rapist?

Be specific, now. Would be good to get a return on my very specific answers above.

I support Shotts, they would be below the threshold for you to bother. Would I stop going? Probably not.

Edit: Any club should await the verdict of the review. At present, no they shouldn't.

[Supras]

If the convicted rapist Ched Evans started posting on here, I would still find him a better poster than supras.

At least you haven't actually tried to contribute, just whined from the sidelines like the little bitch you are.

More posters should be like you know, pathetic - but at least they know it.

I support Shotts, they would be below the threshold for you to bother. Would I stop going? Probably not.

Edit: Any club should await the verdict of the review. At present, no they shouldn't.

Well then fine

If you agreed with me, I really don't understand the meaning of this conversation. Did you not read the thread before you posted?

[Addie]

At least you haven't actually tried to contribute, just whined from the sidelines like the little bitch you are.

Contribute to what? Your attention seeking pish? No thanks.

[sjc]

Is it just because you're both a shite ride & shite at football that you dislike Ched Evans, Supras?

[Sergeant Wilson]

At least you haven't actually tried to contribute, just whined from the sidelines like the little bitch you are.

More posters should be like you know, pathetic - but at least they know it.

Well then fine

If you agreed with me, I really don't understand the meaning of this conversation. Did you not read the thread before you posted?

Agree in principle. It doesn't mean there aren't flaws in your argument.