Sons' sorrow

[the snudge]

Good luck getting house insurance round there with the subsidence

[Jordo1872]

You can get round the subsidence problem with a suitable form of construction.

This surely has wider implications for the club though? Have WDC earmarked the site for housing, or is this simply a proposal in principle?

I thought the club owned all of the land?

[The Moonster]

Right, the land they are wanting to build on is ours (unless someone can correct me). If they're putting forward planning applications, is it safe to assume that they've already spoken with the club about this and the club are fine with it? I'm not entirely sure of the whole process but surely if it's our land then any planning can't be put forward without our consent?

It leaves us with absolutely no car parking area and as you can see they're already saying that we're going to be even more of a nuisance to the neighbours than we already are. I hear the neighbours don't like us at all because people park on their street on match days. I would have this to say to them - are you fucking stupid? The ground was present before any houses were built there, surely if you were buying a house and didn't want football fans parking at your front door, you wouldn't buy a house next to a football stadium? Also, Councillor Murray, how does putting houses there "improve the area"? What is the walkway he talks about? Is this also something new being built or is he talking about Castle Road?

The council don't give a shit about us and frankly if they could make us disappear they'd be doing everything they can to make it happen.

The ground is 13 years old. It's got a 2,000 capacity that we've never hit, it's a good size for us. The facilities are good, the contracts surrounding who gets the best of the facilities aren't so good but that's something we can look to change. Unless that land is worth a shitload of money, I can't see any plausible reason for us to move. Where do we even go? The place we're at is ideal, 5/10 minutes from train station, 10/15 from town centre and we're right next to the rock (the thing we get our nickname from!).

I've got a very bad feeling about what our (still fucking unknown) owners want to do with us here.

[Sweet Pete]

Correct on all points, Moonster.

[The Moonster]

Correct on all points, Moonster.

Safe to say we're moving then. I hope they have a suitable site in mind (in Dumbarton!) and I'd like to see what size of stadium our owners are planning on building. Still think it's highly unnecessary and will be more trouble than it's worth.

[Sweet Pete]

Clubs should only move i they either need a new facility as their current one is unfit or if they are in dire straits in terms of support and need to try and generate new blood through the turnstiles. We don't fit into either of those brackets. We are not weighed down by debt and there is no good reason to seek planning consent for the land that we own and then sell it and move elsewhere. This whole thing is an exercise in profiteering and that is a very dangerous game for small provincial football clubs to play. These developers only got involved because we are solvent and own this ground and the land it sits on. They only want to turn a profit by maximising the land value, hence the application for planning consent.

[The Moonster]

Clubs should only move i they either need a new facility as their current one is unfit or if they are in dire straits in terms of support and need to try and generate new blood through the turnstiles. We don't fit into either of those brackets. We are not weighed down by debt and there is no good reason to seek planning consent for the land that we own and then sell it and move elsewhere. This whole thing is an exercise in profiteering and that is a very dangerous game for small provincial football clubs to play. These developers only got involved because we are solvent and own this ground and the land it sits on. They only want to turn a profit by maximising the land value, hence the application for planning consent.

My worry is that they've been doing all this in secret, when there's no real need to keep it secret (unless you're about to royally f**k someone/many). Not a peep from the board about what the plans are and now we find out from a local paper that they're building houses on the car park. I'd hope a statement from the board comes soon. We've actually been not too bad in the last few years with relaying information to the fans (thanks to the Trust). That leads me to think we won't like the plans they've got for it so they're keeping it quiet for as long as possible.

[Sweet Pete]

Let me just say now, for the avoidance of doubt; there is no reason, none at all, aside from asset stripping, why Dumbarton FC should sell up and move. There is no benefit to the club (and by club, I mean us, not the property developers with the Cayman Islands PO Box) from any move to a new facility. We are a solvent club with a loyal and consistent fan base. There is no justifyable reason for us to seek to move. I do not give a single f**k how much money can be made by selling. In fact, if the land is so valuable then that's even more reason not to sell and to hold onto our only real, tangible asset. I am vehemently opposed to any move.

[Jordo1872]

I'd hope a statement from the board comes soon.

You'd like to think so eh? I wouldn't hold my breath.

I'd agree with Pete in that any sale of land will almost certainly be of little tangible benefit to the club. We're in the unenviable position of being owned by property developers, and now we have a proposal for land development. Didn't see that one coming. You can bet your last pound that any money made from the sale of surrounding land won't be used for squad strengthening.

Some clarity from the club would be appreciated but we've more chance of the travellers coming back to tidy up.

[Nowhereman]

Right, the land they are wanting to build on is ours (unless someone can correct me). If they're putting forward planning applications, is it safe to assume that they've already spoken with the club about this and the club are fine with it? I'm not entirely sure of the whole process but surely if it's our land then any planning can't be put forward without our consent?

It leaves us with absolutely no car parking area and as you can see they're already saying that we're going to be even more of a nuisance to the neighbours than we already are. I hear the neighbours don't like us at all because people park on their street on match days. I would have this to say to them - are you fucking stupid? The ground was present before any houses were built there, surely if you were buying a house and didn't want football fans parking at your front door, you wouldn't buy a house next to a football stadium? Also, Councillor Murray, how does putting houses there "improve the area"? What is the walkway he talks about? Is this also something new being built or is he talking about Castle Road?

The council don't give a shit about us and frankly if they could make us disappear they'd be doing everything they can to make it happen.

The ground is 13 years old. It's got a 2,000 capacity that we've never hit, it's a good size for us. The facilities are good, the contracts surrounding who gets the best of the facilities aren't so good but that's something we can look to change. Unless that land is worth a shitload of money, I can't see any plausible reason for us to move. Where do we even go? The place we're at is ideal, 5/10 minutes from train station, 10/15 from town centre and we're right next to the rock (the thing we get our nickname from!).

I've got a very bad feeling about what our (still fucking unknown) owners want to do with us here.

Anyone can put forward a planning application whether they own the ground or not although I would be very surprised if a builder made such an application without entering in to discussions with the club.Like it or not it is fairly obvious that the current owners bought the club with a view to making a profit on the land so if there's a possibility of selling some of it they are going to take it

[Nowhereman]

You'd like to think so eh? I wouldn't hold my breath.

I'd agree with Pete in that any sale of land will almost certainly be of little tangible benefit to the club. We're in the unenviable position of being owned by property developers, and now we have a proposal for land development. Didn't see that one coming. You can bet your last pound that any money made from the sale of surrounding land won't be used for squad strengthening.

Some clarity from the club would be appreciated but we've more chance of the travellers coming back to tidy up.

Possibly not but to be fair to the current board compare where we are now with where we were when they took over.

[The Moonster]

Possibly not but to be fair to the current board compare where we are now with where we were when they took over.

I understand that they were always going to look for some profit somewhere and the land was the most likely outcome. I also agree that we are in a better position now than when they took over. It's where they go from here that worries me. If they can sell the ground/land, what do you think a property developer with profit in his pocket will do with a football club that is now of no use to them? I think we had a Golden Share IIRC, which stopped anyone from selling our ground without building a new one but that was a long time ago and I'm not sure if that's still in place.

I don't think it's time to hit the panic button just yet but we need some clarification from the club.

[Nowhereman]

I understand that they were always going to look for some profit somewhere and the land was the most likely outcome. I also agree that we are in a better position now than when they took over. It's where they go from here that worries me. If they can sell the ground/land, what do you think a property developer with profit in his pocket will do with a football club that is now of no use to them? I think we had a Golden Share IIRC, which stopped anyone from selling our ground without building a new one but that was a long time ago and I'm not sure if that's still in place.

I don't think it's time to hit the panic button just yet but we need some clarification from the club.

Some clarification would be nice but given the level of communication from the owners since they took over I think we'll be waiting a long time.

[The Moonster]

Some clarification would be nice but given the level of communication from the owners since they took over I think we'll be waiting a long time.

Speaking of our owners, I've done a bit of digging here on Denny's Homes who have submitted these planning applications.

https://www.duedil.com//company/06326746/brabco-736-limited

That's a link to Brabco 736 (our owners), if you scroll down a bit you'll see that Denny's Homes are a Subsidiary company of Brabco 736. If you sign up for free, you'll see that Callum Hosie is not only a Director at Dumbarton Football Club & Brabco 736 but also at Denny's Homes. That's maybe not surprising to anyone but I think it highlights what their intentions are. What the fans need to ask themselves is are we a pawn in their bigger game that will ultimately be sacrificed at some point in the name of winning the game? It looks that way to me, I could be wrong.

[Nowhereman]

Speaking of our owners, I've done a bit of digging here on Denny's Homes who have submitted these planning applications.

https://www.duedil.com//company/06326746/brabco-736-limited

That's a link to Brabco 736 (our owners), if you scroll down a bit you'll see that Denny's Homes are a Subsidiary company of Brabco 736. If you sign up for free, you'll see that Callum Hosie is not only a Director at Dumbarton Football Club & Brabco 736 but also at Denny's Homes. That's maybe not surprising to anyone but I think it highlights what their intentions are. What the fans need to ask themselves is are we a pawn in their bigger game that will ultimately be sacrificed at some point in the name of winning the game? It looks that way to me, I could be wrong.

Never heard of Denny's Homes. Set up around the same time as Brabco 736 presumably with a view to take housebuilding forward if no-one else like Turnberry,Bett etc wanted to. As none of the bigger companies seem to want the land Denny's are making the application themselves. I suppose the one plus is that the club don't have an offer or even an interest from a third party which would give the current owners a big profit.

[The Moonster]

Never heard of Denny's Homes. Set up around the same time as Brabco 736 presumably with a view to take housebuilding forward if no-one else like Turnberry,Bett etc wanted to. As none of the bigger companies seem to want the land Denny's are making the application themselves. I suppose the one plus is that the club don't have an offer or even an interest from a third party which would give the current owners a big profit.

Is that really a plus? Either way it looks like the land is going and our stadium with it.

[Nowhereman]

Is that really a plus? Either way it looks like the land is going and our stadium with it.

It's a plus in that unless the owners think that they are going to make a decent bit of money nothing is likely to happen.

[Jordo1872]

Possibly not but to be fair to the current board compare where we are now with where we were when they took over.

I'm not disputing that. My point was more that any land sale, and subsequent profit, is unlikely to benefit the club.

On the Brabco/Denny Holmes issues; is it inconceivable to suggest that those involved are using the Denny Holmes company as a mechanism to gaining planning consent, with a view to approaching appropriate third parties thereafter? Land with approved planning consent is far more valuable than land with potential for planning approval.

[the snudge]

I dont know about anyone else but I'm frantically pressing the panic button

[Jan Vojáček]

I dont know about anyone else but I'm frantically pressing the panic button

Aye I'm a bit concerned aswell,this mysterious housing company,selling the car park not the ground,the board not saying anything,concerning times. I would be up for a move but as long as it benefits and doesn't hamper us financially. There better be standing room in a new ground aswell!