Sons' sorrow

[Jan Vojáček]

How many Sons fans are involved with local teams and will ask the revelant Facebook powers about the ins and outs of the propaganda they're sharing?

Obviously we have Pleslie at his club, but is anyone else involved?

[the snudge]

19 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

 

That is a condition of moving. The owners have stated that the club doesn't move until the new ground is built and capable of hosting us.

 

So the new owners of the land at the rock will pay a handsome price, then sit patiently and wait (losing money in the process) for us to finish our Bob the Bruce stadium? Sounds a bit to good to be true to be honest. 

Perhaps the trust are being a bit cautious in their statement rather than supportive? 

[Skyline Drifter]

54 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

See Brabco? You can f**k off. See the local football clubs doing their bidding for them? You can f**k off. See these fucking welts that are telling us to back these plans because it's a "win win situation"? You can f**k off. 

Merry fucking Christmas.

Stop sitting on the fence man and tell us all whether or not you're in favour of the potential move.

[GordonD]

On 20/12/2017 at 22:41, sons'r'us said:

I thought the scarves from the club were £9. I know if you order online they take a fiver delivery but I'm sure we have a stock in at the stadium.

A fiver for delivery? Do they send one of the players round with it in a taxi?

[pleslie99]

My guess is that they went to the clubs and said "would you support more 3G pitches in the area/would you use them" and that sort of stuff. Naturally the clubs responded positively, hence they now have their support.
Be interesting to see if that is what happened, or if they've actually got some more info that we haven't.

I don't really see this as a major selling point. There isn't exactly a shortage of facilities for youth teams in the area. We have argyle, Dumbarton east, OLSP, vale academy, the new bellsmyre complex, merkins, even hermitage and numerous in clydebank if you wish to go further afield. The 3g parks are frequently lying empty, it's not glasgow where teams are fighting over them. Dumbarton United is a very strange one as they now 'run' Dumbarton East and all their age groups are given a slot when they require it. So not a big selling point to them. I reckon they have been promised more than is let on. I will endeavour to find out, I assume it may be empty promises mind you.

[BallochSonsFan]

10 minutes ago, the snudge said:

So the new owners of the land at the rock will pay a handsome price, then sit patiently and wait (losing money in the process) for us to finish our Bob the Bruce stadium? Sounds a bit to good to be true to be honest. 

Perhaps the trust are being a bit cautious in their statement rather than supportive? 

The owners have said that the new stadium will be funded solely through the sale of parcels of land at Youngs Farm for housing development. The existing stadium site won't be sold until the new ground is ready to move into.

Their position is that they carry all of the risk for the financing and building of the new ground and that it will be fully financed through the sale of land at Youngs Farm for housing development. Clearly there are risks that the land may not sell for the price needed to deliver the full development and a Brabco profit. Or that what they eventually deliver, if the project gets the nod, is less than their current declared intention. Those are issues that must be addressed but only after the planning decision. Nothing can happen without planning permission for housing at the new site. That decision will either allow the development or kill it stone dead.

I don't believe that there's a risk of having to ground share and nor is there a risk of  Youngs Farm going belly up and the club being left homeless (on the basis the current ground having been sold and Youngs Farm subsequently collapsing). It would appear to be a straight choice between staying where we are and dealing with the various things that need to be dealt with or moving to the new site and whatever facilities are eventually built. There are opportunities for the club in moving to a new development at Youngs Farm. There are also risks - possibly not so much in terms of financing the build but certainly when the club takes possession of the keys and is expected to be in a position to get the most from the new ground and surrounding facilities. Neither ground sharing nor being left completely homeless would appear to be some of the numerous risks that the Youngs Farm proposal would pose for the club.

The trust are adopting the only position they can right now. It can't allow a situation to arise where it becomes marginalised in discussions and where neither the owners nor the club board are willing to engage in meaningful conversation. The trust needs to build constructive relationships - which absolutely doesnt mean giving unconditional, or even conditional, support for the move. It also means not completely opposing it until all aspects of the move become clear and a proper position can be taken. Ask questions. Demand answers. Scrutinise them. Inform fans. Make sure that there's meaningful dialogue and that supporters concerns are being listened to. Anything else would risk the fans either being marginalised or the club sleepwalking towards an outcome that may not be to it's advantage.

From a personal point of view? I can't see that moving to Youngs Farm will be a license for the club to print money or deliver some kind of future where money is never an issue but it may be a kickstarter for change. If it's done properly then it can deliver stronger finances for the club. If it's done poorly then we can have all the facilities in the world but we may not have the know how to use them properly. Similarly we need to consider that we may be staying put. If that happens then we can't plod on the way we're going now because we're not getting the most from the current ground and we're not the most professional business that we can be. Whatever happens, the club needs to change from top to bottom in order to deliver a sustainable future for Dumbarton FC.

[sonsanorak]

I'm coaching with Riverside and support to the new stadium was brought up and discussed at our agm in november.

My own feeling was that unless DFC were to commit to some partnership or long term commitment to Riverside then we should be cautious.

Our agreement on it was that we would welcome any new football playing facilities in the area.

Perhaps a Riverside statement, if there is one, isnt as favourable as the D U one and thats why its not out. Then again, perhaps these statements will be drip fed into the public domain in the run up to the 31st January.

Its quite a big pr exercise thats underway now; Brabco have been quite clever to try and get more public support before the planning permission goes in.

[sonsanorak]

@ballochsonsfan are the trust looking into a buy out?

 

From what I've picked up from the briefings Brabco return a profit from the sale of the current site, and that only. Whats the sale price for the current site and how / can we generate that sort of cash?

 

If the council knock back planning permission what do Brabco do next?

 

 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I'm coaching with Riverside and support to the new stadium was brought up and discussed at our agm in november.

My own feeling was that unless DFC were to commit to some partnership or long term commitment to Riverside then we should be cautious.

Our agreement on it was that we would welcome any new football playing facilities in the area.

Perhaps a Riverside statement, if there is one, isnt as favourable as the D U one and thats why its not out. Then again, perhaps these statements will be drip fed into the public domain in the run up to the 31st January.

Its quite a big pr exercise thats underway now; Brabco have been quite clever to try and get more public support before the planning permission goes in.

Who runs the Facebook page? Kim Jong Un?

It appears any comments questioning the move are magically disappearing.

[Jan Vojáček]

4 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

Who runs the Facebook page? Kim Jong Un?

It appears any comments questioning the move are magically disappearing.

 

Lets see if mine gets removed. I've written it like I wrote my law essay last year, and I'm leaving it here in case I need to copy and paste it back in.

Spoiler

Very disappointing to see comments rightly critiquing the viability of these plans, and the potential impact they could have on the future of Dumbarton Football Club, being removed. This is a massive gamble. If it comes off then the results for all teams in the area should be ideal - however the business of football is one that rarely runs to plan, and so any critique of the project should be encouraged on a public forum to ensure that Dumbarton Football Club don't end up in a similar situation to West Dunbartonshire's other (former) senior football club.

Major questions of the financial feasibility still exist and have yet to be answered in the three or so years that have passed since the plans initially went public. I'd urge anyone supporting this vociferously to ensure that they have read and understand the situation prior to putting their opinion in writing.

 

[sonsanorak]

Aye no problem with opinions, I assume that D Utd, the local youth development football league and the new stadiums facebook page are being questioned too..

[Silverton End]

I'd think that any local youth football team would be in favour of any new facilities/pitches in the area.

So, no real surprise there for me.

This could be a good move and an opportunity for DFC, to become a real 'Community Club'. With the facilities being used by all local teams and perhaps DFC picking up any talented youngsters.

Time will tell. 

I'm still a bit cynical tbh.

I mean who'd want to buy a house near or within a football complex, if we are currently being called a 'nuisance neighbour' where we are just now, with new housing in close proximity???

 

[Jan Vojáček]

1 hour ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

Lets see if mine gets removed. I've written it like I wrote my law essay last year, and I'm leaving it here in case I need to copy and paste it back in.

  Reveal hidden contents

Very disappointing to see comments rightly critiquing the viability of these plans, and the potential impact they could have on the future of Dumbarton Football Club, being removed. This is a massive gamble. If it comes off then the results for all teams in the area should be ideal - however the business of football is one that rarely runs to plan, and so any critique of the project should be encouraged on a public forum to ensure that Dumbarton Football Club don't end up in a similar situation to West Dunbartonshire's other (former) senior football club.

Major questions of the financial feasibility still exist and have yet to be answered in the three or so years that have passed since the plans initially went public. I'd urge anyone supporting this vociferously to ensure that they have read and understand the situation prior to putting their opinion in writing.

 

That's Kim Jong Riverside struck again 

[Jan Vojáček]

8 minutes ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

That's Kim Jong Riverside struck again 

And again, and to a guy asking whether or not it's being built in stages or not.

What on earth is going on? Surely Brabco haven't asked them to remove anything negative, and if they have surely they can't have agreed?

I'll stick it up again later this evening. Absolutely bizarre from whoever their Facebook overlord is.

[Scottylintonstowel]

Have passed the proposed site several times in the past couple of days and where I have  to admit the fields are not flooded in all honesty they make the old Boghead pitch look somewhat arid To be frank there is no way I would buy a house there The fields would be better service used as farmland Oh wait a minute it is farmland

It might be wise for the Trust to neither agree or disagree with the proposal and let the individual members make up their own minds or we could end up with a Brexit situation where we are all at each other’s throats 

My allegiance is to Dumbarton Football Club I don’t give a damn about its directors or for Brabco

[sonsanorak]

Whats bizarre about it?

The local teams are supporting the building of more football facilities.

They put in a lot of their time to try and improve their team and club.

They dont know the ins and outs of the financing, brabco or anything else so why would anyone want to put a question to them?

There's another page for the development as a whole and the sonstrust to fire questions at.

[BallochSonsFan]

2 hours ago, sonsanorak said:

@ballochsonsfan are the trust looking into a buy out?

 

From what I've picked up from the briefings Brabco return a profit from the sale of the current site, and that only. Whats the sale price for the current site and how / can we generate that sort of cash?

 

If the council knock back planning permission what do Brabco do next?

 

 

The purpose of a supporters trust is to give fans a meaningful say in how their football club is run. Whether that's through greater ownership, better representation or a combination of the 2, the trust will continue to look to provide a greater voice for fans.

[Jan Vojáček]

Just now, sonsanorak said:

Whats bizarre about it?

The local teams are supporting the building of more football facilities.

They put in a lot of their time to try and improve their team and club.

They dont know the ins and outs of the financing, brabco or anything else so why would anyone want to put a question to them?

There's another page for the development as a whole and the sonstrust to fire questions at.

It's bizarre to see perfectly fair (certainly in my opinion, feel free to call me out if you believe otherwise) comment on the support for these plans deleted. Not discussed, not ignored, deleted.  As if they don't want anyone to see them. I've not questioned them on the ins or outs of it - but if they, as a club, support it then I'll assume that someone within the club has done a decent amount of reading into it. Put it this way, I run my team's Facebook page (and a few in my real job) and I'd only ever delete a comment if it was offensive or spam.

I fully understand why they're supporting it. Trust me as a coach of a team who pays £45 to train on a third of a tired astro pitch with broken goals. I'm merely urging caution to those who support it that, based on what we've seen over the past four years, it may be totally unrealistic, and could lead to irreparable damage being done to football in G82. Imo Brabco failed to get any response from the fans when they called for us to write favourably to WDC, and so they're now taregting an easier group.

The vast majority of those involved with local teams won't have anything to lose, they won't be Sons fans like you or I, so I don't expect them to care a great deal about DFC potentially falling into bother. We do though, and so we need to counter Brabco's propaganda/marketing with our own comment.

[sonsanorak]

I appreciate that So8. Certainly when Riverside discussed it at the agm it was felt a guarded welcoming of more football facilities was appropriate. But only in the same way that the council building something, or a n other, would be.

 

Brabco have commisioned professional pr folk who are looking for support and leverage from other local groups with some interest in football facilities.

 

I would expect more of this pr stuff in the weeks to come and would hope we respect everyones right to their own opinions and facebook pages.

 

 

 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Whats bizarre about it?

The local teams are supporting the building of more football facilities.

They put in a lot of their time to try and improve their team and club.

They dont know the ins and outs of the financing, brabco or anything else so why would anyone want to put a question to them?

There's another page for the development as a whole and the sonstrust to fire questions at.

People are well within their right to give them more info on what the implications could be for DFC, which obviously wont be done by the minter Brabco PR machine. Whether they care or not is entirely up to them but to just delete any comment that isn't fully supportive of the move is poor IMO. No one is asking them questions, simply giving some info on why it's not automatically an out and out win win situation for everyone involved.

One thing that's clear in all of this is that Brabco don't care about what fans of Dumbarton FC actually think. Hence why they are paying people to gain support from organisations who have absolutely f**k all to do with the club. The ones who's opinions should matter are the loyal supporters who plough money into the club. No offence to Dumbarton Riverside but their support for a new stadium shouldn't matter a jot.