Sons' sorrow

[FifeSons]

1 hour ago, Ross Forbes said:

I think Boomer's stint in Australia is over. If he's back then I could 100% get behind Duffy bringing him back in January.

That would be an exceptional piece of business. Seems unlikely though 

[The Belize Bandits]

Falkirk going for 500k, Stirling Albion takeover back on at 400k, offers in Belize dollars for this land/historic football club. 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Falkirk going for 500k, Stirling Albion takeover back on at 400k, offers in Belize dollars for this land/historic football club. 

Huh?

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

The new mural taking shape

[Silverton End]

1 hour ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

1 hour ago, The Belize Bandits said:

Falkirk going for 500k, Stirling Albion takeover back on at 400k, offers in Belize dollars for this land/historic football club. 

Huh?

Brabco trying to flog us?

[Hank Scorpio]

Do you boys reckon Loy is finished or just out of form/luck? I know it’s rehashed ground but I saw a post about maybe trying to ship him out in January and would be keen to see, if that was to happen, who would take a punt on him.

[Jan Vojáček]

1 minute ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Do you boys reckon Loy is finished or just out of form/luck? I know it’s rehashed ground but I saw a post about maybe trying to ship him out in January and would be keen to see, if that was to happen, who would take a punt on him.

It's been a wee while since we saw him play to be honest. In fact his last two appearances have came off the bench after the 80 minute mark - the last of which was against you guys in the 1-5 game.

There's a player in there. Of that I have absolutely no doubt. He came on in the Montrose game for Jack Aitchison and put in his best performance of the season - but hasn't played much since, and just cannot seem to buy a goal. It's really sad to watch, because he gets himself in a position and then loses absolutely all belief and finds a way not to put the ball into the net.

Now, obviously, you could look at his form over the past 15 months and decide that, actually, that's not a confidence thing, he is just done. But I honestly don't think it's the case, you see glimpses of what he can do, but as soon as something goes wrong - be it a pass, a shot, a cross. Anything. He just looks absolutely bereft of any confidence. The fact that he's not the sort of player who'll charge about smashing into folk also means that he was getting a lot of stick from the crowd.

If he can somehow get a goal - be it a penalty, a tap-in, off his backside, whatever, we might see a different player. At the moment though he just looks like he needs a hug whenever he's on the pitch 

[FifeSons]

Loy hasn’t really played all that much football this season. I’d be interested to know exactly how many minutes he’s played; I suspect it’s not enough to judge whether he’s finished. He also didn’t get much of a pre-season, which is a huge disadvantage.

I think it depends on how serious his injuries problems are, with regards to whether he has any further role to play. He’s a bit of an enigma tbh.

ETA: Apparently he’s played 470 minutes this season, alll of which were under Aitken. That’s only just over 5 full games. Fitness and confidence are obviously the problem, but I don’t think it’s impossible both could come back.

Edited November 4, 2018 by FifeSons

[Jan Vojáček]

7 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

Loy hasn’t really played all that much football this season. I’d be interested to know exactly how many minutes he’s played; I suspect it’s not enough to judge whether he’s finished. He also didn’t get much of a pre-season, which is a huge disadvantage.

I think it depends on how serious his injuries problems are, with regards to whether he has any further role to play. He’s a bit of an enigma tbh.

ETA: Apparently he’s played 470 minutes this season. That’s only just over 5 full games. Fitness and confidence are obviously the problem. I don’t think it’s impossible both could come back.

470 in the league, plus 205 in cups. He's only completed 90 minutes once though - on the opening day against East Fife, where he worked really well alongside Calum Gallagher. He's started just five league games, the last of which was the defeat to Stenny on September 1.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Loy hasn’t really played all that much football this season. I’d be interested to know exactly how many minutes he’s played; I suspect it’s not enough to judge whether he’s finished. He also didn’t get much of a pre-season, which is a huge disadvantage.
I think it depends on how serious his injuries problems are, with regards to whether he has any further role to play. He’s a bit of an enigma tbh.
ETA: Apparently he’s played 470 minutes this season, alll of which were under Aitken. That’s only just over 5 full games. Fitness and confidence are obviously the problem, but I don’t think it’s impossible both could come back.

Rory Loy's best moments in a Sons jersey were as a sub in the home defeat to Killie; indeed I recall Moonster waxing along the lines that he would burn up the division. Regrettably it has been downhill all the way since then and I don't really buy this 'give him a goal and he'll turn the corner' schtick. The new Stevie Craig/Isaac English/Stevie Mallan is not what we need right now.

[FifeSons]

2 minutes ago, Ross Forbes said:

470 in the league, plus 205 in cups. He's only completed 90 minutes once though - on the opening day against East Fife, where he worked really well alongside Calum Gallagher. He's started just five league games, the last of which was the defeat to Stenny on September 1.

Yep, I was just looking over our fixtures and thought the 470 must be league only. The injury problem is obviously a real concern, and he may well be finished in the sense that he isn’t coming back from that.

However, it would be interesting to see him under Duffy. He wouldn’t be the first striker to become rejuvenated after escaping the clutches of Stevie Aitken.

[FifeSons]

6 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

20 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

Loy hasn’t really played all that much football this season. I’d be interested to know exactly how many minutes he’s played; I suspect it’s not enough to judge whether he’s finished. He also didn’t get much of a pre-season, which is a huge disadvantage.
I think it depends on how serious his injuries problems are, with regards to whether he has any further role to play. He’s a bit of an enigma tbh.
ETA: Apparently he’s played 470 minutes this season, alll of which were under Aitken. That’s only just over 5 full games. Fitness and confidence are obviously the problem, but I don’t think it’s impossible both could come back.

Rory Loy's best moments in a Sons jersey were as a sub in the home defeat to Killie; indeed I recall Moonster waxing along the lines that he would burn up the division. Regrettably it has been downhill all the way since then and I don't really buy this 'give him a goal and he'll turn the corner' schtick. The new Stevie Craig/Isaac English/Stevie Mallan is not what we need right now.

To be fair, Mallan and Craig were 34+, if I recall correctly. Loy is still only 30, and was making a significant contribution towards saving St Mirren at the tail end of the 2016/17 season. 

All I’d say is, I wouldn’t chuck him on the scrap heap just yet.

Edited November 4, 2018 by FifeSons

[Howlin' Wilf]

4 hours ago, The Belize Bandits said:

Falkirk going for 500k, Stirling Albion takeover back on at 400k, offers in Belize dollars for this land/historic football club. 

I'd be interested to know how many enquiries they'll get. Probably around the zero mark that Rankine got between 2001 and 2005.

[Howlin' Wilf]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

1 hour ago, FifeSons said:

Loy hasn’t really played all that much football this season. I’d be interested to know exactly how many minutes he’s played; I suspect it’s not enough to judge whether he’s finished. He also didn’t get much of a pre-season, which is a huge disadvantage.
I think it depends on how serious his injuries problems are, with regards to whether he has any further role to play. He’s a bit of an enigma tbh.
ETA: Apparently he’s played 470 minutes this season, alll of which were under Aitken. That’s only just over 5 full games. Fitness and confidence are obviously the problem, but I don’t think it’s impossible both could come back.

Rory Loy's best moments in a Sons jersey were as a sub in the home defeat to Killie; indeed I recall Moonster waxing along the lines that he would burn up the division. Regrettably it has been downhill all the way since then and I don't really buy this 'give him a goal and he'll turn the corner' schtick. The new Stevie Craig/Isaac English/Stevie Mallan is not what we need right now.

Isn't he on a two year deal?

[The Moonster]

Rory Loy isn't a bad player IMO.  I think up until the East Fife home win he was our leading assister for the season? Injuries are clearly an issue for him though, and for that reason I'd move him on if it was possible to do so.

[Jan Vojáček]

9 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Rory Loy isn't a bad player IMO.  I think up until the East Fife home win he was our leading assister for the season? Injuries are clearly an issue for him though, and for that reason I'd move him on if it was possible to do so.

Yup. There's a wee bit of dubiety as to whether or not winning a penalty that is converted counts as an assist, but his against Montrose was 'experienced play'. So I've given him it. 

In case anyone's interested this is how our assist situation looks at the moment:

Ross Forbes (5)
Rory Loy (4)
Michael Paton, Bobby Barr, Dom Thomas (2)
Craig Barr, Stuart Carswell, Ryan Thomson, Jack Aitchison, Iain Russell, Brad Spencer, Kyle Hutton (1)

[O'Kelly Isley III]

2 hours ago, Ross Forbes said:

Yup. There's a wee bit of dubiety as to whether or not winning a penalty that is converted counts as an assist, but his against Montrose was 'experienced play'. So I've given him it. 

In case anyone's interested this is how our assist situation looks at the moment:

Ross Forbes (5)
Rory Loy (4)
Michael Paton, Bobby Barr, Dom Thomas (2)
Craig Barr, Stuart Carswell, Ryan Thomson, Jack Aitchison, Iain Russell, Brad Spencer, Kyle Hutton (1)

I'm not getting this 'assist' stuff, it seems to be something that has migrated from stats-obsessed American sport.  If you win 1-0 and your keeper saves a penalty and pulls off two great saves, then he is demonstrably 'assisting' more than someone who happens to 'assist' by taking the utterly random corner from which you scored.  Don't take this personally So8  Rossco, but get it tae f***

Edited November 5, 2018 by O'Kelly Isley III

[Jan Vojáček]

16 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I'm not getting this 'assist' stuff, it seems to be something that has migrated from stats-obsessed American sport.  If you win 1-0 and your keeper saves a penalty and pulls off two great saves, then he is demonstrably 'assisting' more than someone who happens to 'assist' by taking the utterly random corner from which you scored.  Don't take this personally So8  Rossco, but get it tae f***

Welcome to the Goalkeepers' Union 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I'm not getting this 'assist' stuff, it seems to be something that has migrated from stats-obsessed American sport.  If you win 1-0 and your keeper saves a penalty and pulls off two great saves, then he is demonstrably 'assisting' more than someone who happens to 'assist' by taking the utterly random corner from which you scored.  Don't take this personally So8  Rossco, but get it tae f***

Assists don't just come from random corners though. For example, Kyle Hutton played an inch perfect cross field pass from distance last Saturday to set up Gallagher.

Keepers already receive praise for pulling off wonder saves and penalty saves will generally be used as stats (see Crawford, David). I don't think the assist stat is a meaningless one, sure there will be a few lucky ones over a season, but you get lucky goals and saves as well. It's a good barometer of who is creating the most chances, whether that be from set pieces or open play and quite often the 'assister' will be doing the hard work for a striker to tap one in.

[The Moonster]

36 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I'm not getting this 'assist' stuff, it seems to be something that has migrated from stats-obsessed American sport.  If you win 1-0 and your keeper saves a penalty and pulls off two great saves, then he is demonstrably 'assisting' more than someone who happens to 'assist' by taking the utterly random corner from which you scored.  Don't take this personally So8  Rossco, but get it tae f***

Whilst I tend to agree with the overall point that stats can be misleading in terms of performance, would you say that Ross Forbes plumped 12 "utterly random corners" or crosses onto Thomas O'Ware's head during season 2016-17?  

Loy hasn't hit the heights everyone expected him to be, but the fact is he's still created 4 of the 20 odd goals we've managed this season. I agree that moving him on may be for the best if at all possible, but he might not be as useless as some have condemned him to be if we can't move him on.