Sons' sorrow

[Silverton End]

[DanMc99]

You want dumbarton to be playing in Dumbarton not half way to renton/the vale. i'm not the biggest fan of the stadium down at the castle but its a far better location for a number of reasons. would rather see dumbarton have a boghead like stadium again.

[Jan Vojáček]

The stadium propaganda is worthy of Brexit. Honestly, it gives me the fear that some of our fans will Hoover this stuff up.

[The Moonster]

You have to laugh. Brabco haven't taken any sort of interest in the clubs income since they bought the club but we're now to believe that they really have the clubs financial health at heart, right when there's a buck or two to be made for them. He's out of touch too, we're going through a successful period on the pitch now but I wouldn't say it was the most successful in our history. We are also not the only part time club in this league.

I'd like to know what feedback he was given on Saturday given that he didn't bother coming through to speak to fans. 

[lionel wickson]

According to this bloke, our last five years are arguably the most successful in our history?! Without going further back, pick any five year spell from say 1970 to 1987, and it will comfortably exceed this current spell.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Ian Wilson is slowly grinding my gears.

Save the shite mate. Stop pretending your doing this for the 'financial future of the club', be honest and tell us you are looking for a bit of cash on your investment.

Why do they all of a sudden care about the club? I never even knew who he was until a matter of weeks ago.

Moonster is bang on the money, he's so out of touch with the football side of things he's now waffling absolute nonsense in the press.

I'll just ignore his comments about the Saturday consultation. He was nowhere to be seen. I'm not letting that go.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Brabco's pitch is not aimed at the club's supporters, it's aimed at the planning authority and local politicians who are promoting a walkway and improved amenity on the site of the current ground.  If they can gain favour for what looks like an ambitious, go-ahead plan with a wider public who know nothing and care less about Brabco's abilities and motives then so much the better from their point of view.

The challenge for Sons fans is to apply some rigour to this proposal and to scrutinise the implications, whilst not appearing as a bunch of knee-jerk refuseniks.  At the moment the gauntlet has been publicly taken up by Bill Heaney in last week's Lennox, but were I a Brabco investor I would be quite relaxed, such was the florid and inaccurate diatribe he produced.  With friends like that, etc.,

The first step will be to see a healthy turnout at the Trust AGM on the 23rd, where it is hope that the keyboard warriors and others will find their vocal chords - we are now at the stage where the bumping of gums in private is no longer an option.  Courtesy of recent history Brabco has DFC utterly by the balls, but executing their plan will still be very difficult; we need to ensure that our club does not become any more of a bargaining chip than it currently is.

[BallochSonsFan]

Brabco have been honest from the start.

- They're not Dumbarton fans.

- They're here to make money.

- They hope that they can do so without being detrimental to the club.

If they were able to deliver everything they hope they can then we get a new stadium and the means of making a decent sum of money outwith match days, they get their profit and everybody is happy. Unfortunately life is rarely straightforward. They may well be able to overcome the various hurdles that are in place and achieve what they're planning.  Alternatively they may not. THe obvious risk to the club is tje lengths to which they will go to chase their ambition and what that will mean for Dumbarton FC. Is it move at all costs? What if we're left with a half-developed site on the Renton Rd? Brabco have avoided meddling in the club's day to day affairs so far - what happens if they start to try to protect their investment?

 

I'm sceptic rather than a cynic. Theres a cse to be made and its up to them to make it. Thats why its so important for fans to engage. Ask questions. Consider the answers. Highlight concerns. Play an active part in this. The difference between Brabco's vision for what they want to deliver and the reality of what they either will or can deliver is the most important issue facing our club right now. We need a strong turnout at the Sonstrust AGM on Nov 23rd and we need fans to ask challenging questions. We need to make sure that we take the opportunity to be an active part in what will be the biggest issue our club has faced in the past decade.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Brabco have been honest from the start.

- They're not Dumbarton fans.

- They're here to make money.

- They hope that they can do so without being detrimental to the club.

If they were able to deliver everything they hope they can then we get a new stadium and the means of making a decent sum of money outwith match days, they get their profit and everybody is happy. Unfortunately life is rarely straightforward. They may well be able to overcome the various hurdles that are in place and achieve what they're planning.  Alternatively they may not. THe obvious risk to the club is tje lengths to which they will go to chase their ambition and what that will mean for Dumbarton FC. Is it move at all costs? What if we're left with a half-developed site on the Renton Rd? Brabco have avoided meddling in the club's day to day affairs so far - what happens if they start to try to protect their investment?

 

I'm sceptic rather than a cynic. Theres a cse to be made and its up to them to make it. Thats why its so important for fans to engage. Ask questions. Consider the answers. Highlight concerns. Play an active part in this. The difference between Brabco's vision for what they want to deliver and the reality of what they either will or can deliver is the most important issue facing our club right now. We need a strong turnout at the Sonstrust AGM on Nov 23rd and we need fans to ask challenging questions. We need to make sure that we take the opportunity to be an active part in what will be the biggest issue our club has faced in the past decade.

I assume you may have connections with the Trust and know about the honesty of Brabco?

I am a member but I have no connections other than attending AGMs and the likes. I can't say I've ever seen any sort of information available to the public where Brabco state the above. Perhaps I've missed it but I certainly haven't noticed anything and I'd consider myself a fairly active supporter in terms of being up to date with information.

I think that's a big problem we face at the minute. The fan who is less involved receiving this sort of information. They see the above article and think their intentions are solely to safeguard the club. Also as mentioned previously, the Trust meeting will be attended by active supporters, guys who are more involved. On Saturday we had the perfect opportunity to hear the voices of the less involved supporters and it was disappointingly ignored.

I absolutely encourage everyone to attend the Trust meetings but I'd like to see something else taking place pre kick off on a Saturday to allow us to educate and listen to the guys who simply attend matches. It could double up as a recruitment drive when they see that strength in numbers can help in this situation.

[BallochSonsFan]

Theres really nothing to know in terms of Brabco's honesty.

As far back as the original planning consultation, Roddy from the planning consultants made it clear that Brabco intended to make a profit from the move. They've kept in the background for much of their time since acquiring the club and have now become a bit more visible given their intentions regarding the stadium move. Having spoken with Ian Wilson at the consultation day last Friday it's clear that they realise themselves that the original plans were implausible and that the only way this move can possibly work is by identifying and then overcoming the many hurdles that are in place.

I neither trust them nor distrust them. All anybody can say right now is that their intention is to make money and that had they wanted to go down the nuclear route of ripping the club to bits then they would have done so by now. That doesnt mean that the deal makes sense for the club or the fans. It doesnt mean that we should trust them as benevolent or that their position won't change if it becomes clear that their cash is at risk. But it also means that we shouldn't immediately treat their intentions as sinister. All we can hope to do is get enough information to make an informed decision and then try to be as effective as possible in seeing that decision through. We can't rush to judgement.

In terms of events on a Saturday afternoon before kick-off, I'd urge everybody who wants to discuss the stadium move to head over to the table wher the trust board members usually gather and have a chat. Ask questions. Raise concerns. The trust AGM is obviously very important but theres no reason why we can't start having some conversations now. The trust can perhaps be a bit more visible on match day but I'm sure everybody involved would welcome more involvement from the membershp and the support at large.

[pleslie99]

For all the new stadium proposals are a worry for all at DFC. I can't help but think becoming a community club with the facilities available for use within the community such as the pitch etc could be the way forward for some much needed revenue. As all of us that are involved in youth/amateur football will testify, the cost of hiring these pitches is astronomical and there isn't enough to go around. If DFC can provide one that is available to rent whenever the 1st team aren't using it to train and we can take in a few grand per week then that's more money to the clubs coffers!

[The Moonster]

10 minutes ago, pleslie99 said:

For all the new stadium proposals are a worry for all at DFC. I can't help but think becoming a community club with the facilities available for use within the community such as the pitch etc could be the way forward for some much needed revenue. As all of us that are involved in youth/amateur football will testify, the cost of hiring these pitches is astronomical and there isn't enough to go around. If DFC can provide one that is available to rent whenever the 1st team aren't using it to train and we can take in a few grand per week then that's more money to the clubs coffers!

It's that theory which Brabco are obviously working on, but the reality of such a plan must be different or everyone in the country would have fitted one of these pitches and be coining it in. Maintaining the pitches can't be cheap and they still need to be relayed every so often, which I imagine will be dearer than relaying a grass pitch but I'm not sure. You also need to pay full-time staff members to run the bookings/open and close the place/clean the changing rooms every day etc. All of that just adds to the cost of hiring the pitch. Sure, if we could undercut the other local facilities then DFC would be the pitches of choice for West Dunbartonshire, but I'm not sure we could. And if we don't rent the pitch out enough to cover the costs you end up with a full time business being supported by the income of part time football club to keep it going.  For me it's a dangerous situation to enter into.

Stenhousemuir were one of the first to put down an artificial pitch, they've also been taking rent off East Stirlingshire for the best part of a decade and in January 2015 they released this statement - http://www.stenhousemuirfc.com/news/2015/01/21/1156/. Now there might be other factors at play which has lead them to that situation, but if the above theory of having an extra few grand a month purely from renting a pitch out would surely have them in a better position that most part time clubs to deal with any cash flow problems? I may be doing these pitches a disservice and we'll see the likes of Forfar and Annan rocket up the leagues as they've too much money to throw around, but I fear these pitches aren't the pot of gold they're being painted out as.

[Jan Vojáček]

The thing about Astro pitches is that you need to have people on them constantly to coin in any sort of decent return - and even then that wears it out quicker, and so you'll need to spend a decent chunk relaying it.

I remember playing on a brand new one over Strathclyde Country Park way. Bothwellhaugh I think it is, only opened this year, brilliant pitch - best Astro I've ever seen, but when I spoke to the guy on reception about it it had cost near enough a million pounds to lay it and the hybrid pitch beside it. I've no idea if that's included in Brabco's costings for our community facilities, or if the fact an astro needs replaced every 8 years or so. This would probably be 6 or 7 years if it was getting played and trained on at every single opportunity.

Add in the cost of laying it, the cost of replacement, the cost of maintenance and the cost (presumably) of employing a few guys to man the reception area pretty much full-time and it becomes hard to see us making a decent amount of money from it. Let's say the initial implementation costs a million, then 7 years down the line paying (say) £400,000 to rip it up and replace it that's a hell of a lot of money for Brabco (or whoever is in charge at that point).

How many Astro pitches are there in the local area? 

[TheFarPost]

23 hours ago, The Moonster said:

At Dumbarton we've seen that success on the pitch does not bring fans to the game, for me, embedding the club in the community is the only other route to building the fan base.

That's spot on. Quite a few of the ideas suggested above have been mooted by the trust board over the past few years, incidentally; but the response has not been positive. Whether we stay up this season or not, and whether the stadium move happens or not, DFC will need to be much more bold and imaginative about becoming a real 'community club' in the future. Without that it's going to become ever more difficult to keep going.  Before the stadium move was first mooted (over three years ago, now), the trust board had started work on a plan for heading in that direction. That's something I'd like to see us get back to, as well as re-shaping the trust into a body that can take a bigger stake in the club and help deliver change.  

[TheFarPost]

3 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

In terms of events on a Saturday afternoon before kick-off, I'd urge everybody who wants to discuss the stadium move to head over to the table wher the trust board members usually gather and have a chat. Ask questions. Raise concerns. The trust AGM is obviously very important but theres no reason why we can't start having some conversations now. The trust can perhaps be a bit more visible on match day but I'm sure everybody involved would welcome more involvement from the membershp and the support at large.

Yes, please *do* come over to the trust table on Saturday. I'll be there. Brian and Alastair are often there, too.  We'll also make some announcements about the meeting on 23rd, etc. Thanks for the comments. I do take the point about visibility. We'll look to improve that. The current list of trust board members is here, by the way: https://sonstrust.wordpress.com/trust-board/  

Simon

[TheFarPost]

5 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

The challenge for Sons fans is to apply some rigour to this proposal and to scrutinise the implications, whilst not appearing as a bunch of knee-jerk refuseniks.  

The first step will be to see a healthy turnout at the Trust AGM on the 23rd, where it is hoped that the keyboard warriors and others will find their vocal chords - we are now at the stage where the bumping of gums in private is no longer an option. 

^   ^   ^

This.

 

[TheFarPost]

From the Reporter today: http://www.dumbartonreporter.co.uk/news/14908089.Sons_roll_out_the_red_carpet_as_they_host_public_exhibition_of_proposed_stadium_move/

(From our comment on the consultation: "Many people remarked on the ambition of the plans. What everyone wants to be sure of is that they are workable and sustainable in planning and business terms moving forward.

"As a provident society with a significant stake in the club, the Sonstrust will continue to urge the fullest involvement of supporters in the future of the club.

"I'm sure there will be plenty of good discussion and questions for co-owner Ian Wilson and his colleagues at the general meeting called by the trust on Wednesday 23rd November. That takes place immediately after our AGM at 7pm at the Rock Bowling Club.")

Also from the Lennox Herald: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/dumbarton-fc-director-says-stadium-9270632

There's more online than in the print editions, notably photos of the display boards. I hope we can get the full set made available soon.

Simon

[KennyWilsonsMoustache]

In non-stadium related news, here's Captain Barr with McCoist for an Ally Versus video for Ladbrokes:

 

[DumbartonTheSons]

What time is the AGM at on the 23rd and where is it being held?

[pleslie99]

In non-stadium related news, here's Captain Barr with McCoist for an Ally Versus video for Ladbrokes:

 

He done us proud........