H_B Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 You seemed to be finding it a struggle to understand why Cameron has absolutely no need to debate anything using the format youi describe. In the same way Salmond has absolutely no need to offer himself up to the likes of Darling. It's simply politics. Cameron has the upper hand regarding Salmond and Salmond has the upper hand regarding the likes of Darling. Pretty basic stuff. Exactly. Cameron has the whip hand here - as we all know, he has comprehensively outpointed Salmond on the terms of the referendum, secured a hugely advantageous Edinburgh Agreement and is the leader of a much wider and more powerful constituency, of which Salmond's part is just a small slice. Why on earth would he choose to debate with Salmond? He could send up an underling like Hague to dance rings round fatso, but that would be pretty disrespectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deky Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Exactly. Cameron has the whip hand here - as we all know, he has comprehensively outpointed Salmond on the terms of the referendum, secured a hugely advantageous Edinburgh Agreement and is the leader of a much wider and more powerful constituency, of which Salmond's part is just a small slice. Why on earth would he choose to debate with Salmond? He could send up an underling like Hague to dance rings round fatso, but that would be pretty disrespectful. Does the leader of the UK have no wish to stand up and defend the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Oh I understand he has no "need" to debate Salmond. I just though that with the positive case for the union being so strong that Cameron would jump at the chance. The fact that the PM of the UK has no plans to debate the case for the union he leads speaks for itself imo. You thought wrong. Cameron has Salmond exactly where he wants him to be. Until that situation changes (if it ever does) then he can simply employ archers rather than going hand to hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Does the leader of the UK have no wish to stand up and defend the UK? You are changing the line of argument now. Originally this was about a head to head debate with Salmond. Something Cameron has no need to do as he can simply leave Salmond flapping in the wind as long as he likes. Now you are claiming he has no wish to stand up and defend the union? He has made a few speeches already doing this, and I'm sure it will get a mention in the future, but at the moment, with no prospect of independence happening , there is no need for him to properly wade in. He must be absolutely loving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deky Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 You are changing the line of argument now. Originally this was about a head to head debate with Salmond. Something Cameron has no need to do as he can simply leave Salmond flapping in the wind as long as he likes. Now you are claiming he has no wish to stand up and defend the union? He has made a few speeches already doing this, and I'm sure it will get a mention in the future, but at the moment, with no prospect of independence happening , there is no need for him to properly wade in. He must be absolutely loving it. I was still talking in terms of a debate between PM and FM, sorry for not making that clear. It smells of fear to me, no matter how you spin it otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 It smells of fear to me, no matter how you spin it otherwise. But Salmond snubbing a debate with Darling - that's not fear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jambo-rocker Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Could we please stop calling the SNP liars? No doubt there are some in the party who behave like typical politicians, but Labour, LibDems and Tories (ie: the main unionist parties) have proved time and time again that they are masters of the art of lying and it's ridiculous to try and paint the SNP as the bad guys. Alex Salmond has referred himself to the standards committee and has been cleared of breaching the ministerial code 6 times. That includes the following issues: EU legal advice News International's BSkyB bid Inviting lottery winners to his home nominating recipients for honours There's also been some controversy about open prisons, funding for the Scottish Interfaith Council, and class sizes. He was cleared of those too. Usually it's Labour (and Willie Rennie) wasting taxpayers money by constantly making (and repeating) accusations. house.bmp Everybody lies. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deky Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 But Salmond snubbing a debate with Darling - that's not fear? Why should Scotland's FM debate with the leader of Better Together? Salmond is not the leader of YesScotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 It's all politics. DC has no need to debate on this - he knows it would not go down well, which is why he is avoiding it. If he thought it would boost the Unions cause, he would do it in a minute. All the Yes campaign can do is paint him as feart. Which is exactly what they are trying to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deky Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 It's all politics. DC has no need to debate on this - he knows it would not go down well, which is why he is avoiding it. If he thought it would boost the Unions cause, he would do it in a minute. All the Yes campaign can do is paint him as feart. Which is exactly what they are trying to do. Why would it not go down well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 All the Yes campaign can do is paint him as feart. Which is exactly what they are trying to do. Which is indeed what the No campaign are doing with Salmond's refusal to meet Darling. Call him a shitebag and let the people decide the truth of it. Of course, as we know, Cameron doesn't fear a Salmond debate and Salmond doesn't fear a Darling debate - just neither sees it as being in their interests to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I was still talking in terms of a debate between PM and FM, sorry for not making that clear. It smells of fear to me, no matter how you spin it otherwise. It reeks of good politics to me by someone in the dominant position. There is no need for Cameron to throw Salmond a bone. None. Which is why he won't do it. Again, it's basic stuff and you are simply failing to grasp the reality of the situation. The reason most nats continually drone on about this is because they know, this would be an opportunity for Salmond to play to the gallery. Its something that politically, Cameron can simply say "f**k off" to him about. He has absolutely no need politically to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deky Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Which is indeed what the No campaign are doing with Salmond's refusal to meet Darling. Call him a shitebag and let the people decide the truth of it. Of course, as we know, Cameron doesn't fear a Salmond debate and Salmond doesn't fear a Darling debate - just neither sees it as being in their interests to do. So the PM of the UK debating the future of the UK with the FM of Scotland who wants to break up the UK is not in Cameron's interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 So the PM of the UK debating the future of the UK with the FM of Scotland who wants to break up the UK is not in Cameron's interest? Correct. You are sloooowly beginning to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deky Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 It reeks of good politics to me by someone in the dominant position. There is no need for Cameron to throw Salmond a bone. None. Which is why he won't do it. Again, it's basic stuff and you are simply failing to grasp the reality of the situation. The reason most nats continually drone on about this is because they know, this would be an opportunity for Salmond to play to the gallery. Its something that politically, Cameron can simply say "f**k off" to him about. He has absolutely no need politically to go there. Playing to what gallery? Why is the UK PM coming to Scotland and telling us what's good for us an issue? If we are better together in this union, it should make no difference whereabouts the PM comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deky Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Correct. You are sloooowly beginning to get there. He can't think much of the union then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Playing to what gallery? Why is the UK PM coming to Scotland and telling us what's good for us an issue? If we are better together in this union, it should make no difference whereabouts the PM comes from. For f**k sake Deky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Again, I refer to my signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 So the PM of the UK debating the future of the UK with the FM of Scotland who wants to break up the UK is not in Cameron's interest? Now you've got it. Though there is an important distinction to be drawn here, and it's one the Nats still don't seem to grasp. Scotland seceding is not breaking up the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 He can't think much of the union then. K.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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