deky Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Cameron can debate with whoever he wants, but the fact is this is an entirely devolved matter and he should keep out of it. What would the point of a Cameron versus Salmond debate be? Neither party will convince anyone from the opposite field. Salmond versus whoever the Better Together campaign want to put forward is fine. A debate between dissenting Scottish voices would give guiding principles from both Yes and No, and provide a Scottish voice for those non-committed voters. I don't see why Cameron and Salmond would be hilarious at all, but if it was, wouldn't Cameron just send William Hague up? Hague, for all that he's wrong about most things, is arguably the finest debater in the House and would probably make Salmond look stupid. But the point is, it isn't about debating qualities. It's about how in touch, how central the debaters are in the campaign. Cameron's an outsider to all intents and purposes. Cameron is the PM of the UK and as part of BT he is campaigning for Scotland to stay in the UK, under his control. I find it slightly racist that because he is English he should have no say in the vote. He will still be our "master" if we vote no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Bojangles Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Here is a great story about how the SNP are still lying to us on the issue of Europe. Had look for it on Newsnut but they only seem to be doing the clapping seal thing for their masters. FRANCE and Spain would not accept an independent Scotland into the European Union, a European Parliament vice-president has claimed. Alejo Vidal-Quadras, an MEP from Catalonia who opposes the region’s independence from Spain, said France and Spain “will surely not” accept an independent Scotland. The SNP government hopes to negotiate its EU membership – including opt-outs from the euro, free travel areas and a budget cut – in the period between the referendum in September 2014 and its proposed independence day in March 2016. Mr Quadras, speaking at the European Parliament in Strasbourg, described this timescale as “pure fantasy” and the hope of securing opt-outs “a dream”. Any nation seceding from a member state will face obstacles from its former state and from other member states with secessionist movements, he said. When asked whether these states would accept an independent Scotland, Mr Quadras said: “France and Spain, surely not. The UK, probably not. Don’t forget Spain has not yet recognised Kosovo.” Mr Quadras said the SNP “are not telling the truth to the Scottish people” on the EU’s requirement for border controls with England. “If we make a big effort of imagination and imagine a Scotland separated from the UK and a member of the EU, and Scotland is in Schengen [the passport-free travel area] and the UK is not, then there will of course be a border between both countries, with border controls and everything.” The row came as Flemish nationalist MEP Mark Demesmaeker said Scotland’s membership negotiations will be more difficult if it insists on EU opt-outs. Mr Demesmaeker said: “We don’t believe in Europe a-la-carte, but there could be good reasons for Scotland to ask because they are enjoying these opt-outs now.” The SNP have been making it all up as they go along. I especially enjoyed the last line there. Excellent. He's from the Catalan version of Better Together. Big fucking surprise. http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/spain-we-wouldnt-block-scotlands-bid-to-join-eu.17243653 http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/304495/Spain-will-not-veto-an-independent-Scotland-joining-EU I'm not sure where France comes into it. Do they have a strong independence movement I wasn't aware about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Cameron is the PM of the UK and as part of BT he is campaigning for Scotland to stay in the UK, under his control. I find it slightly racist that because he is English he should have no say in the vote. He will still be our "master" if we vote no. Only for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 He's from the Catalan version of Better Together. Big fucking surprise. http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/spain-we-wouldnt-block-scotlands-bid-to-join-eu.17243653 http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/304495/Spain-will-not-veto-an-independent-Scotland-joining-EU I'm not sure where France comes into it. Do they have a strong independence movement I wasn't aware about? Catalonia includes a part of France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I love the fact that Reynard believes everything that unionist politicians tell him absolutely without question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 What flip flopping? Nato was the only thing in the list above that they changed policy on. That's not true. The SNP changed policy on the Euro also. And Nicola Sturgeon of course lied to people about membership of the EU, something they have been forced to backtrack on rapidly over the past couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I see the Western Isles are now looking for some form of devolution from Holyrood. I wonder if Orkney and Shetland will be looking to do the same and make sure that more of the wedge raised on their patch is left there? Edinburgh is "far away" for these folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 That's not true. The SNP changed policy on the Euro also. And Nicola Sturgeon of course lied to people about membership of the EU, something they have been forced to backtrack on rapidly over the past couple of years. Quite, we have rowed a long way back from the initial guff the SNP were spouting on the EU. We are almost at the point of sense. Almost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 That's not true. The SNP changed policy on the Euro also. And Nicola Sturgeon of course lied to people about membership of the EU, something they have been forced to backtrack on rapidly over the past couple of years. Welcome back, i hope you are still as "utterly consistent" as ever. But Really? The SNP have never said anything other than we would use the pound on day one. They did say that they hoped to use the Euro one day, but that hasn't been policy since at least 2009. Hardly a "flip flop". Maybe you could explain why Scotland would be forced to join schengen when other countries like Romania arent allowed to join at all despite applying multiple times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Quite, we have rowed a long way back from the initial guff the SNP were spouting on the EU. We are almost at the point of sense. Almost. We are going to stay in the EU. As per SNP statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 We are going to stay in the EU. As per SNP statements. Mmmmhmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 We are going to stay in the EU. As per SNP statements. Scotland aren't in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Scotland aren't in the EU. Really? When did we leave? Nothing to say on schengen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Nicola Sturgeon (2006) :- "”An independent Scotland would automatically inherit EU membership on the same terms as the remainder of the UK” Nicola Sturgeon (2012), when asked about the UK's current rebate :- " "I would be confident of an independent Scottish government negotiating a good deal [with the EU] for Scotland." What a fucking idiot she is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Really? When did we leave? Nothing to say on schengen? We didn't leave because "we" have never been a member. I'm surprised you didn't know that. Scotland aren't a member of the UN either - sorry to break that to you on a Monday morning too. I have no idea about Schengen. I have no view on it one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Ah, pointless pedantry. And I was under the impression that we were in the UM. Has cameron withdrawn us from it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Ah, pointless pedantry. And I was under the impression that we were in the UM. Has cameron withdrawn us from it? The UK is yep. We're in the EU too. With special terms. Good to be in the UK eh? I know you are pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nifty shade of grey Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Someone (Ecto?) asked a few pages back about public opinion on Trident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthAyrshireKillie Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Someone (Ecto?) asked a few pages back about public opinion on Trident. 67311_447278262016853_1483016639_n.png What does a nuclear deterrent actually deter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nifty shade of grey Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Hope this puts the "Salmond's shitein it fae Darling" argument to bed, but somehow I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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