Independence - how would you vote?

[DeeGas]

Last night's Road to the Referendum now online - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNU7WWASqYw&sns=tw

Thank you for the link Yogi.

The programme leans more to the Independence shout than the Union,that's clear,although the Union gets its say too.

I think what comes out strongest is what I've often spoke about,the "British/UK family."

This referendum is all about the choice for Scotland of leaving the British family and going it alone.

Scots can do this,but if they do they create foreigners out of family members.

The financial/military etc etc pros and cons of the argument are of course important,but these questions will still be there for all,whatever the referendum result.

To break up the UK would be to my mind a terrible mistake and will take Scotland down a route led by bitter nationalists.

I pray the majority of Scots will allow this to happen.

300 years of British intergration.

We are the same people.

[DeeGas]

Genuine questions (no really).

What does David Cameron mean when he says “suddenly to turn our neighbours into foreigners rather than family members, it’s, it’s… to me it’s unthinkable”?

What does Margaret Curran mean when she says "“I think that I’d be uncomfortable with the thought that [my son] is now a foreigner [after independence, [should he be living in England]"?

What does Tony Benn mean when he says “If Scotland wants to be independent they have the absolute right to do so... I am half Scots and feel it would divide me in half with a knife. The thought that my mother would suddenly be a foreigner would upset me very much”?

In all three cases there's a clear implication that to be foreign is somehow to be inferior or less good than being UK British.

Do you really not understand,or are you pretending not to understand?

300 years of intergration.

[xbl]

Not an awful lot of chat on that Road to the Referendum, is there? Page after page of Unionist deflection though...

[DeeGas]

I dare say he's canvassing up in Aberdeen Donside. By-election tomorrow and all that.

It does make me laugh you've come out with this line. It wasn't so long ago that the SNP and Salmond inparticular were painted as a one man band, present at every opening of a bottle of becks and never off the telly.

Make your fucking mind up.

Let's see Salmond come out of hiding and tell us the SNP plans for independence and let the debate begin!

[DeeGas]

Ill ask again STOP QUOTING THE TROLL

You've got your way sunshine,no vote for the English,no vote for Scots living in England,you have the date you wanted,votes for teenagers etc.

You've managed to shut out many people and create divide,congratulations.

What a complete lack of tolerance.

The SNP way.

[archie guevara]

Do you really not understand,or are you pretending not to understand?

300 years of intergration.

The point is, is foreign less good than British and if so, why?

[banterman86]

The point is, is foreign less good than British and if so, why?

Do you seriously think there's an underlying xenophobia in those comments?

I think it's a stupid point, but it's not Cameron playing the "pesky foreigner" card

[H_B]

The point is, is foreign less good than British and if so, why?

They aren't saying they are less good - they are saying they aren't one of them. Which will be factually correct.

Do you not recognise amongst many Scots a collective feeling of "Scottishness"?

Where does the phrase "Wha's like us" come from?

[DeeGas]

Not an awful lot of chat on that Road to the Referendum, is there? Page after page of Unionist deflection though...

Scotland is a Labour country,the programme showed that.

It also avoided the Scottish Unionists,the Scots who feel part of the British family.

It showed Salmond has maybe one last tango in him,maybe.

I think it also inadvertently showed Scotland does not want independence and the SNP know it.

Salmond and Co still need to stir up a load more trouble and anti English sentiment for that to happen.

The problem for them is 'even the English' are not that bad,infact many Scots like us.

[Savage Henry]

Do you seriously think there's an underlying xenophobia in those comments?

I think it's a stupid point, but it's not Cameron playing the "pesky foreigner" card

I think he's just saying he doesn't want there to be a split. I don't particularly see anything underlying, just an off-the-cuff statement which reads somewhat clumsily.

[DeeGas]

The point is, is foreign less good than British and if so, why?

So,you are pretending not to understand.

Your efforts to create divide look unfriendly,weak and trouble making.

[archie guevara]

Do you seriously think there's an underlying xenophobia in those comments?

I think it's a stupid point, but it's not Cameron playing the "pesky foreigner" card

In which case, why put it forward as part of the case against independence? One country becomes two and by definition at that stage different, but why is that and that alone (the different bit), bad?

[archie guevara]

So,you are pretending not to understand.

Your efforts to create divide look unfriendly,weak and trouble making.

My efforts to "create divide"? I'm not the one pointing out differences for, according to you, no reason at all.

[banterman86]

In which case, why put it forward as part of the case against independence? One country becomes two and by definition at that stage different, but why is that and that alone (the different bit), bad?

As H_B said, I think it's designed as an emotional argument to appeal to people who feel a sense of britishness,

[archie guevara]

They aren't saying they are less good - they are saying they aren't one of them. Which will be factually correct.

Do you not recognise amongst many Scots a collective feeling of "Scottishness"?

Where does the phrase "Wha's like us" come from?

Not following you at all. I'm not Austrian, but it's not something that I feel any angst about.

[archie guevara]

As H_B said, I think it's designed as an emotional argument to appeal to people who feel a sense of britishness,

But why is it an argument at all? What is inherently bad about being a non-specified foreigner?

[SlipperyP]

Your full comment had zero relevance. Whether or not my extended family grow up to be millionaires or benefit junkies is completely irrelevant as to whether I believe that more income should be vested in the state, as opposed to private individuals.

For a start, why on earth would you want more of your disposable income given to idiot politicians to waste?

I believe in fairness and equality, and hammering middle income earners is neither fair, nor equal. I have no problem with the current tax regime, which already means that higher earners contribute way more than lower earners, but I would not want to see it become any more draconian.

As you see I quote full then highlight, maybe better for you in the future, where we can all judge.

Anyway, are you sure you typed the correct words in the highlight, more and more within the UK this is not the reality, and is moving away from your belief. Do you relies this from your castle?

[DeeGas]

But why is it an argument at all? What is inherently bad about being a non-specified foreigner?

Your being too clever for your own good mate.

Your point is coming across as childish twaddle.

But you know this.

[archie guevara]

Got a work meeting, but I

Your being too clever for your own good mate.
Your point is coming across as childish twaddle.
But you know this.

So you don't have an answer...

...and childish twaddle seems to be par for the course on this part of the forum, so surely I can be forgiven if that's what you think.

[DeeGas]

Got a work meeting, but I

So you don't have an answer...

...and childish twaddle seems to be par for the course on this part of the forum, so surely I can be forgiven if that's what you think.

Forgiven.

If you insist.Tut!

In this case,what the PM said,"foreign" simply means not family.

Family=loved family member,not necessarily you agree with all the time,but family.

Foreign or non British=means a stranger who does not live in the same country.Not necessarily good or bad,but not family.

You forgive family members all sorts of things,it is often above what is best because of the family bond.

Now come on,i know you understand this.

You may see it differently or disagree with feeling any 'family thing' for England,but,you understand the point.