Independence - how would you vote?

[Colkitto]

Tell it to John Swinney, he was the one voicing deep concerns about declining and volatile oil revenue, pensions and having to make public sector job cuts after independence.

But he didn't want schemie working class filth that is going to vote for him to know.

How what did he actually say?

[Reynard]

How what did he actually say?

He wrote it down. You mean you haven't even read it?

I thought newsnut or wangs would have been trying to keep their politicians honest by showing it to you clowns.

[xbl]

He wrote it down. You mean you haven't even read it?

I thought newsnut or wangs would have been trying to keep their politicians honest by showing it to you clowns.

And speaking of of keeping honest, why can you not answer that very simple question?

[Reynard]

Its good to see the OBR oil tax revenue forecasts are broadly in line with what Swinney was saying (in private) to his colleagues. When the entire independence thing has been built up around how fabulously wealth we are all going to be thanks to the tax revenues from private oil companies, you can understand why in spite of him knowing all these figures, he was wheeled out a few months ago to spout utter shit about a second oil boom. In fact Swinney, Salmond and Sturgeon all did that recently. And of course, the happy clapper letterbox fodder cheered and high fived one another while shouting freeedom.

They simpy ignored the leaked document which shows Swinney planning on making pesnion cuts, welfare cuts and of course massive reigning in of public spending. Not something I'm remotely troubled by, but the lower class scum that seem to think Scotland will be a welfare paradise and who are being used as useful idiots by the SNP should maybe take a look. This brave new caledonia maybe isn't going to be quite as good for them as they like. But never mind, the political elite who will ignore them completely, will be a bit nearer to their hovels, so its great.

[Colkitto]

He wrote it down. You mean you haven't even read it?

I thought newsnut or wangs would have been trying to keep their politicians honest by showing it to you clowns.

Have you read it? What did it say exactly?

[renton]

That is complete nonsense. They'll be a trend of increasing decomminising of current facilities.

However current oil revenue alone won't allow us to become Norway like, with Norway taking advantage of state owned Statoil in order to increase revenues. I doubt we'd ever be in the position to ever become a major share holder in any of the major companies, unless we go down a Magabe esque route.

The main problem is the SNP, have had a scatter gun policy in terms of what they say a independent Scotland will ideally do.

With numerous retractions of statements especially from Sturgeon and Swinney. With the mention of defaulting on any debt that we may take off the UK in negotiations being madness, alone with mentioning of lowering corpartation tax.

Keeping the GBP is also a strange move, gain political independence but hand over all monetary control to a now foreign facility in doing so removing control from Scottish banks in setting interest rates, as well as clearing facilities. Will massively decrease faith from investors in the banks.

Scotland could be independent, but i don't feel it's of any real benefit, the current political parties would still be in power with Labour and the new SNP continuing to be front runners for any election, in an almost American mold.

I feel, that the majoirty would be worse off in an independent Scotland, and so far the Yes campaign have done nothing to convince me otherwise.

The mistake is in assuming that what the SNP do now casts in stone what all future Scottish governments must do forever. In the short term it was always going to be a choice between the Euro and Sterling, with Euro looking the mor epermanent option should we choose it. Using Sterling in the short term is beneficial to both sides. The argument that Scotland is letting someone else set interest rates is undermined by the fact that the BoE is independent and thus the British goverment does not set interest rates anyway.

The mention of defaulting on debt was only made in retaliation to equally stupid pronouncements by the British government that Scotland would be entitled to nothing in the break up, therefore if we get none of the assets we should take none of the liabilities. It's school playground stuff from both sides.

IN essence, Scottish independence is about giving ourselves the ability to choose. Politicial independence gives us the chance to shape a representative democracy for ourselves, responsive to the needs of the Scottish people - the SNP likely won't survive a succesful referendum given the friction between the two wings of the party - we would see a reset of the entire poltiical scene up here and ove rtime it would diverge from Westminster. We would get control of tax raising powers, if not interest rates int he short term. Having the ability to use some economic levers is better than what we currently enjoy (which is none). With full devolution of foreign as well as domestic policy we can choose a more ethical foreign policy, plow money into projects more likely to benefit Scotland and avoid some of the uncecessary foreign entaglements that Westminster seems to enjoy, saving a lot of blood and treasure into the bargain.

I think generally people will be better off under Scotish independence. It means more money directed into services and infrastructure up here, it means a representative democracy where your vote actually counts for something - unlike westminster where the 59 Scottish MPs can't even pul their weight collectively to act as a bloc (there ismply isn't enough of them) Scottish MPs at Westminster are an irrelevance. It means any mistakes are our own and we can be responsible for ourselves. I don't see hwo we can choose not to.

[doulikefish]

Gideons OBR are a complete and utter waste of time,even bbc scotchland news last night doubted there figures.Its no coincidence that the biggest drop in oil price is just after sept 2014

[Reynard]

Have you read it? What did it say exactly?

Yes.

Wh don't you read it for yourself? Do you actually NEED other people to spoon feed you information?

Lets put it this way, what he said in the leaked paper, he was wheeled out the very next day to contradict. Salmond made an absolute c**t of him.

[xbl]

Yes.

Wh don't you read it for yourself? Do you actually NEED other people to spoon feed you information?

Lets put it this way, what he said in the leaked paper, he was wheeled out the very next day to contradict. Salmond made an absolute c**t of him.

Why should anyone believe your lies? When will you answer the question? After claiming your figures were more up to date than my 2012 ones, did you base your unsupported pensions statements on out of date 2010 figures?

[Reynard]

The mistake is in assuming that what the SNP do now casts in stone what all future Scottish governments must do forever. In the short term it was always going to be a choice between the Euro and Sterling, with Euro looking the mor epermanent option should we choose it. Using Sterling in the short term is beneficial to both sides. The argument that Scotland is letting someone else set interest rates is undermined by the fact that the BoE is independent and thus the British goverment does not set interest rates anyway.

The mention of defaulting on debt was only made in retaliation to equally stupid pronouncements by the British government that Scotland would be entitled to nothing in the break up, therefore if we get none of the assets we should take none of the liabilities. It's school playground stuff from both sides.

IN essence, Scottish independence is about giving ourselves the ability to choose. Politicial independence gives us the chance to shape a representative democracy for ourselves, responsive to the needs of the Scottish people - the SNP likely won't survive a succesful referendum given the friction between the two wings of the party - we would see a reset of the entire poltiical scene up here and ove rtime it would diverge from Westminster. We would get control of tax raising powers, if not interest rates int he short term. Having the ability to use some economic levers is better than what we currently enjoy (which is none). With full devolution of foreign as well as domestic policy we can choose a more ethical foreign policy, plow money into projects more likely to benefit Scotland and avoid some of the uncecessary foreign entaglements that Westminster seems to enjoy, saving a lot of blood and treasure into the bargain.

I think generally people will be better off under Scotish independence. It means more money directed into services and infrastructure up here, it means a representative democracy where your vote actually counts for something - unlike westminster where the 59 Scottish MPs can't even pul their weight collectively to act as a bloc (there ismply isn't enough of them) Scottish MPs at Westminster are an irrelevance. It means any mistakes are our own and we can be responsible for ourselves. I don't see hwo we can choose not to.

Mmmm hmmm

Yes, the state central bank is entirely independent. You ACTUALLY believe this? Really?

Is there a political party at Westminster that you reckon will go into a general election telling the voters that THEY will be expected to be lender of last resort to five million Scots who just fucked off?

The SNP currency plans are absolutely hilarious. The plan B to go for an Isle of Man type thing are even more ridiculous. 5 pensions Salmond should just retire to his office which a couple of boxes of caramel wafers and a glass of whisky, take his revolver out the drawer and do everyone a favour.

[xbl]

Mmmm hmmm

Yes, the state central bank is entirely independent. You ACTUALLY believe this? Really?

Is there a political party at Westminster that you reckon will go into a general election telling the voters that THEY will be expected to be lender of last resort to five million Scots who just fucked off?

The SNP currency plans are absolutely hilarious. The plan B to go for an Isle of Man type thing are even more ridiculous. 5 pensions Salmond should just retire to his office which a couple of boxes of caramel wafers and a glass of whisky, take his revolver out the drawer and do everyone a favour.

Oh look, more lies. When will you answer the question that you claimed you were "having fun" with? Why must you tell SO many lies?

[Lex]

The Yes campaign really is cracking up. Glorious.

14 months to go before Scotland says no.

[renton]

The Yes campaign really is cracking up. Glorious.

14 months to go before Scotland says no.

I'd be interested to understand why you think the UK is a far superior option to independence.

[Lex]

I'd be interested to understand why you think the UK is a far superior option to independence.

I'd be interested to understand why you - or anyone - would think independence is a far superior option to remaining part of the UK.

The good news is the Scottish electorate doesn't, and this is why this bill is going to be thrown out by the people. Can't wait.

[doulikefish]

I'd be interested to understand why you think the UK is a far superior option to independence.

He is a troll

[Lex]

He is a troll

People who are voting no are trolls?

This really is getting desperate. I wonder who's PNB break down is going to be most epic when the no vote is confirmed? My money is on XBL at the moment but there's a few posters who are currently running him close.. ^ This is one of them.

[renton]

I'd be interested to understand why you - or anyone - would think independence is a far superior option to remaining part of the UK.

The good news is the Scottish electorate doesn't, and this is why this bill is going to be thrown out by the people. Can't wait.

My reasoning has been laid out previously on this thread, probably multiple times. Principally it comes down to ensuring a fair and representative democracy that allows for a much more flexible response to Scottish issues. Having the BoE set interest rates to suit the City of London, to have Scottish taxpayers money spent on projects that bring no benefit to Scotland - that makes no sense. Having a parliament that can actually set policy for what is best for Scotland rather than what is best for the South East of England. To actually have representation in a forum where your vote counts for something - not sending a superannuated labour MP to Westminster to sit on his arse for 30 years.

So yeah, for me it's about borader representation, flexiblity and finding solutions ot problems that better fit Scotland.

So, why are you so depserate to remian in the UK?

[xbl]

He doesn't have an answer. He's a st mirren fan.

[Baxter Parp]

I'd be interested to understand why you - or anyone - would think independence is a far superior option to remaining part of the UK.

The Better Together line, there.

[sons superhero]

My reasoning has been laid out previously on this thread, probably multiple times. Principally it comes down to ensuring a fair and representative democracy that allows for a much more flexible response to Scottish issues. Having the BoE set interest rates to suit the City of London, to have Scottish taxpayers money spent on projects that bring no benefit to Scotland - that makes no sense. Having a parliament that can actually set policy for what is best for Scotland rather than what is best for the South East of England. To actually have representation in a forum where your vote counts for something - not sending a superannuated labour MP to Westminster to sit on his arse for 30 years.

So yeah, for me it's about borader representation, flexiblity and finding solutions ot problems that better fit Scotland.

So, why are you so depserate to remian in the UK?

Lex's turn this should be good.