craigkillie Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 30 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: It's not that he just never got caps, but I never understood why Scott Booth was always treated like an afterthought while he was playing at the peak of his powers in the Eredivisie. 22 Caps for a player that was good enough to play for Borussia Dortmund and several Dutch sides seems like an aberration. Again, probably not an example of precisely what you are talking about because I don't recall many people clamouring for him at the time, but I certainly thought it was strange. Era of Gallacher, Durie, Jackson, and even late McCoist, and Broon known for favouring players that fit a system and played a certain way, but still, I couldn't really understand why Scotland appeared to have next to no use for a player of obvious quality. He wasn't good enough to play for Borussia Dortmund, that's why he only ever made 1 start for them and spent almost all of his time there out on loan at mediocre Dutch clubs. He didn't hit double figures in a season once in 6 seasons in the Eredivisie either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 2 hours ago, Jives Miguel said: Here is the official "Why isn't he getting a chance!!!" alumni XI Bobby Allain Max Johnston - Liam Lindsay - Harry Souttar - Josh Doig Graeme Dorrans - Tom Cairney - Lennon Miller Ryan Gauld Rhodes - Shankland We lost ' arry ! **** ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie adie Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Scott booth 22 caps, 6 goals so a decent return considering he was in and out of the side, with different strike partners. There is a case for saying Eion Jess deserved to be capped more. I've a list of players from the 80s and 90s who were never or under capped 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 6 minutes ago, Willie adie said: Scott booth 22 caps, 6 goals so a decent return considering he was in and out of the side, with different strike partners. There is a case for saying Eion Jess deserved to be capped more. I've a list of players from the 80s and 90s who were never or under capped Eoin Jess was one of the Scottish wunderkind we occasionally pin our hopes on. I've known quite a few people who thought he was going to be The One, but alas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 15 hours ago, Willie adie said: Scott booth 22 caps, 6 goals so a decent return considering he was in and out of the side, with different strike partners. There is a case for saying Eion Jess deserved to be capped more. I've a list of players from the 80s and 90s who were never or under capped One of the best players to not be capped was Billy Stark..... -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 16 hours ago, BFTD said: This is the whole "they can't be much good if they aren't at the Old Firm or playing in the (English) Premiership" thing, isn't it. I don't think that's quite as prevalent now, although you still see it with Scottish Premiership players and anyone playing in foreign leagues that we've decided are still inferior to our own, despite all evidence to the contrary. John Robertson (Hearts edition) vs Mark Burchill. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 2 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said: John Robertson (Hearts edition) vs Mark Burchill. John Robertson is 16 years older than Mark Burchill, they were in completely different generations of Scotland team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 On 06/09/2024 at 17:38, BFTD said: Eoin Jess was one of the Scottish wunderkind we occasionally pin our hopes on. I've known quite a few people who thought he was going to be The One, but alas. He was tremendous late ‘80s and the 1990-1991 season where they were pipped by Rangers for the League on the last day of the season. My wee brother is an Aberdeen fan and I took him to a few games that season. Anyway, some Clydebank defender croaked him (broken ankle) and he was never the same player after that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 11 hours ago, craigkillie said: John Robertson is 16 years older than Mark Burchill, they were in completely different generations of Scotland team. That wasn't the point I was making. Simply contrasting two different journeys to a first Scotland cap. John Robertson played with Hearts and had to score about 150 league goals before he got a run out with Scotland. Contrast with Mark Burchill who scored half that in his entire career but of course played with Celtic and got capped within a year of his debut. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 There is no point in comparing players in completely different eras with different players who they were competing with for their spot. It might be a bit trickier to fight for a position against Kenny Dalglish, Mo Johnston or Ally McCoist compared to Darren Jackson, Gordon Durie and Billy Dodds. Burchill was one of three teenage forwards who all got their debuts within a few years of each other, and all of them had broadly similar records for different clubs. His Scotland debut was also actually more than a year after his Celtic one (Garry O'Connor's was sooner). O'Connor got his first cap within a year of his debut, aged 18, having only appeared 23 times for Hibs and scored 6 goals. James McFadden had played 32 times and scored 10 goals for Motherwell when he got his Scotland debut. Burchill had played 28 times for Celtic and scored 10 goals. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 10 hours ago, craigkillie said: There is no point in comparing players in completely different eras with different players who they were competing with for their spot. It might be a bit trickier to fight for a position against Kenny Dalglish, Mo Johnston or Ally McCoist compared to Darren Jackson, Gordon Durie and Billy Dodds. "Completely different eras". Their playing careers overlapped. Also Kenny Dalglish's last match for Scotland was in 1986 and he only played about 9 times from 1984 onwards scoring 2 goals. It was more like guys such as Frank McGarvey (0 international goals), Frank McAvennie (1 international goal), David Speedie (0 international goals), Graeme Sharp (1 international goal), Brian McClair (2 internationals goals, both deep into his Scotland career) that kept Robertson out the team (and someone like Frank McDougall who didn't even get a cap). If you look for the obvious pattern it's there. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie adie Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 On 07/09/2024 at 08:40, Ya Bezzer! said: One of the best players to not be capped was Billy Stark..... Absolutely 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie adie Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 2 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said: "Completely different eras". Their playing careers overlapped. Also Kenny Dalglish's last match for Scotland was in 1986 and he only played about 9 times from 1984 onwards scoring 2 goals. It was more like guys such as Frank McGarvey (0 international goals), Frank McAvennie (1 international goal), David Speedie (0 international goals), Graeme Sharp (1 international goal), Brian McClair (2 internationals goals, both deep into his Scotland career) that kept Robertson out the team (and someone like Frank McDougall who didn't even get a cap). If you look for the obvious pattern it's there. I agree with this why was John Robertson overlooked for so long. Scoring in a league with the Aberdeen back 3, and Hegarty and Narey, yet capped later in nus career 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 15 hours ago, craigkillie said: There is no point in comparing players in completely different eras with different players who they were competing with for their spot. It might be a bit trickier to fight for a position against Kenny Dalglish, Mo Johnston or Ally McCoist compared to Darren Jackson, Gordon Durie and Billy Dodds. Burchill was one of three teenage forwards who all got their debuts within a few years of each other, and all of them had broadly similar records for different clubs. His Scotland debut was also actually more than a year after his Celtic one (Garry O'Connor's was sooner). O'Connor got his first cap within a year of his debut, aged 18, having only appeared 23 times for Hibs and scored 6 goals. James McFadden had played 32 times and scored 10 goals for Motherwell when he got his Scotland debut. Burchill had played 28 times for Celtic and scored 10 goals. You are right about the eras, but Andy Walker was capped before John Robertson despite being massively worse as a player. Robbo played when there were a lot of good strikers about but should have been a squad player years before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 4 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said: "Completely different eras". Their playing careers overlapped. Also Kenny Dalglish's last match for Scotland was in 1986 and he only played about 9 times from 1984 onwards scoring 2 goals. It was more like guys such as Frank McGarvey (0 international goals), Frank McAvennie (1 international goal), David Speedie (0 international goals), Graeme Sharp (1 international goal), Brian McClair (2 internationals goals, both deep into his Scotland career) that kept Robertson out the team (and someone like Frank McDougall who didn't even get a cap). If you look for the obvious pattern it's there. Their careers overlapped in the sense that a washed up Robertson was kicking about the 2nd Division when Burchill made his debut at 17. They were hardly competing for a Scotland place. It's interesting logic that Dalglish doesn't count because he only played 9 times from 1984 onwards, but McGarvey does despite having 0 caps from 1984 onwards. John Robertson was 19 and had played in the Scottish top flight for 6 months when McGarvey got his last cap. McAvennie scored 26 goals in an English top flight season, Sharp was a regular goalscorer for one of the dominant teams of the era in England and McClair was a regular for Manchester United in one of their most successful eras. Don't know much about Speedie but he was also regularly hitting double figures in England. I'm not really seeing the obvious pattern either, given that two of the guys you listed had no Old Firm connections. Of the players you listed, only McClair got more international caps than Robertson. Robertson only scored 3 international goals himself, so I'm not sure why including those totals for the other guys is supposed to help your argument here either, as though there was a vast gulf in performance at international level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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