H_B Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Uh huh. So you were going to tell us in what way the SNP were more left wing than Ed Miliband's Labour? Apart of course from all the right wing economic stuff, which we're not allowed to mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I'm not sure that's here or there - it's a good policy which I think will get a fair bit of support but the leftiness of Labour on energy will come in how they reform the market. It's undeniably a left wing policy. Whether it's a good one or not is debateable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Uh huh. So you were going to tell us in what way the SNP were more left wing than Ed Miliband's Labour? Apart of course from all the right wing economic stuff, which we're not allowed to mention. Who are you talking to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Who are you talking to? You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I don't think the SNP are particularly Left but they at least prioritise the very basics such as free education and public ownership of the most important public services. Again, the SNP aren't great for this either, hence me labelling them centrist. So far, what we've heard to argue that Ed is left of Eck is the SNP saying "no" to 50p tax and some shit about buses. The first bit isn't actually true, they said they wouldn't go higher than the UK. So that leaves buses. I think the whole tuition fees / actually opposing NHS privitisation thing is a bit more significant. I've just summarised main Labour economic policies which are to the left of the SNP - income tax, corporation tax, banks and council tax. H_B has suggested the Energy freeze, I;m not so sure on that one. the latest stuff on rent controls could probably be tossed in too. And as far as I can tell the SNP are not in favour of renationalising rail or energy. Ad Lib will no doubt be along in a minute to say free tuition isn't left wing - I'm not going down that rabbit hole but I undersatnd and appreciate the arguments on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 And this is where it gets really circular. Scotland isn't a block vote. 35.6% of Scots who voted, voted for the current government. Only very slightly smaller a percentage than those who voted Labour (42%). Scotland doesn't speak with one voice. Many people in Scotland wanted nothing to do with the current SNP government, and yet it was "forced upon us". A lot more people voted against the SNP than for it. Did they now? Please support this "fact" with evidence in accordance with your own rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 You. Ah right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 It's undeniably a left wing policy. Whether it's a good one or not is debateable. It;s the follow up that matters on that one really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Did they now? Please support this "fact" with evidence in accordance with your own rules. Certainly. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/election2011/overview/html/scotland.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Ah right. So, now we've established that, how are you getting on with the evidence? Or will it be a tactical withdrawal, trying not to trip over your tail? (It's going to be the latter isn't it ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Did they now? Please support this "fact" with evidence in accordance with your own rules. Erm, the number of votes cast in the 2011 election? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Isn't it terrible we've had a government forced upon us most people in Scotland didn't vote for? Or am I doing it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Is it only economic policies that decide which side of the spectrum a political party lies ? I'd say social policies are more important. Anyone claiming that Labour are left wing once this is taken into account is off their head. There is a very good reason why Labour are losing support in Scotland. They have lost their values and more more people are starting to realise it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 There's also the energy prices freeze. Surely this is regressive based on the arguments you and your possey put forward on a council tax freeze. Labour are the only ones proposing this regressive policy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Is it only economic policies that decide which side of the spectrum a political party lies ? I'd say social policies are more important. Anyone claiming that Labour are left wing once this is taken into account is off their head. There is a very good reason why Labour are losing support in Scotland. They have lost their values and more more people are starting to realise it. What are these values? I need to have a think on social issues - depends on what you mean. My gut reaction is that labour would be more small c conservatove than the SNP once you consider gay marriage etc cancelling each other out, but then things like the Football Act and the SNP proposals to abolish corroboration hint at a bit of an authoritarin streak as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Surely this is regressive based on the arguments you and your possey put forward on a council tax freeze. Labour are the only ones proposing this regressive policy though. That's what i was hinting at - those further in bigger houses will get a bigger saving. having said that, energy prices don't fund public services the way Council tax does. On the otehr hand there's the Green levy. In short - no sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Is it only economic policies that decide which side of the spectrum a political party lies ? I'd say social policies are more important. Right, so which social policies are you specifically referring to here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 having said that, energy prices don't fund public services the way Council tax does. Quite. That's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Surely this is regressive based on the arguments you and your possey put forward on a council tax freeze. Labour are the only ones proposing this regressive policy though. Are you happy with the evidence you asked for? You haven't said yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I've just summarised main Labour economic policies which are to the left of the SNP - income tax, corporation tax, banks and council tax. H_B has suggested the Energy freeze, I;m not so sure on that one. the latest stuff on rent controls could probably be tossed in too. And as far as I can tell the SNP are not in favour of renationalising rail or energy. Ad Lib will no doubt be along in a minute to say free tuition isn't left wing - I'm not going down that rabbit hole but I undersatnd and appreciate the arguments on it. I guess it does depend where you stand in terms of defining what constitutes left and right. I don't see Milliband as a particularly strong response to the direction New Labour and the Tories have taken us. The SNP have at least delivered some succeses in countering that tidal wave for people in Scotland - NHS, tuition fees etc. Milliband coming up through New Labour, offering a piss poor opposition to things like NHS privitisation but wanting to increasing corporation tax by 1% (well maybe, if the conditions are right) is like someone nicking a tenner from your wallet, then giving you a quid back. So, now we've established that, how are you getting on with the evidence? Or will it be a tactical withdrawal, trying not to trip over your tail? (It's going to be the latter isn't it ) Yeah, I answered that about 2 posts previous, which is why I wanted to "establish" who the f**k you were talking to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.