RuMoore Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 3 hours ago, FreedomFarter said: I'd love there to be a progressive alliance where SNP didn't run a candidate against Monica Lennon and Labour didn't run against Mhairi Black. Such a strategy would have the effect of shifting both parties leftwards and with it the national political landscape Instead all we get in Scotland is these absurd calls for Labour voters to "tactically" vote Tory and vice-versa. For me, folk's preference for either British or Scottish nationalism shouldn't override underlying principles. I agree mostly with this part however we're not talking about people being left or right when it comes to policy when the "left wing" option has leaving the UK as their main policy. Of course Unionist parties will vote tactically to avoid that. There are plenty of left wingers that don't support Indy and there's plenty of people that lend their vote to Labour and SNP without really considering Indy as the main factor. If Indy wasn't on the table I seriously doubt what some deem as "British nationalist" voices would have any prominence in Scottish politics. In an ideal world whether within the UK or not we would have PR and people's left or right wing views could be better represented rather than all parties trying to hoodwink centrist voters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 18 minutes ago, RuMoore said: I agree mostly with this part however we're not talking about people being left or right when it comes to policy when the "left wing" option has leaving the UK as their main policy. Of course Unionist parties will vote tactically to avoid that. Sure but doing that is putting national identity above material interest which is a liberal not socialist stance (the reverse is equally true regards Scottish national identity). 19 minutes ago, RuMoore said: There are plenty of left wingers that don't support Indy and there's plenty of people that lend their vote to Labour and SNP without really considering Indy as the main factor. If Indy wasn't on the table I seriously doubt what some deem as "British nationalist" voices would have any prominence in Scottish politics. I was using British nationalist as the alternative to Scottish nationalist then secessionist as the antonym to unionist. Just a semantic thing as its a more consistent categorisation. 34 minutes ago, RuMoore said: In an ideal world whether within the UK or not we would have PR and people's left or right wing views could be better represented rather than all parties trying to hoodwink centrist voters. Very much. UK has been moving since the 1990s closer in the direction of the US situation. There you have a corporate duopoly which entirely align on economics and only disagree on social issues. UK is still a good bit away from that but the direction of travel is towards it. The other major European nation stuck on this conveyor belt, France, also has the FPTP system in common with UK. It creates a huge democratic deficit and leads to increasing consolidation of power for the ownership class over time. Incidentally, Corbyn opposed PR because it allows the far right an immediate seat at the table. That's true but does he think the US Republican party and Le Pen in France are not far right? UK Tory party is heading that way too. PR is better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moses1924 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 6 hours ago, Gringo said: We don’t want to be like NI and just vote on constitutional/religious lines We already are like that. Almost everyone who wants independence votes SNP regardless of their other policies; almost everyone who opposes independence would never vote SNP, even if they agreed with most of the SNP policies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Details of the recall petition for Margaret Ferrier. https://www.southlanarkshire.gov.uk/info/200236/politicians/2157/statutory_notices Any P&Bers in Rutherhlen and Hamilton West going to sign? I see that Wings was up in arms about The National pushing this because he thinks that a Unionist is a shoe in to get elected if there is a by election. I’m sure I also saw Neale Hanvey, one of the two Alba MPs, speak against it, he may have voted against it as well. Interesting and perhaps suggests that Alba might not stand in the seat and potentially drain SNP votes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAD Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 26 minutes ago, ICTChris said: Details of the recall petition for Margaret Ferrier. https://www.southlanarkshire.gov.uk/info/200236/politicians/2157/statutory_notices Any P&Bers in Rutherhlen and Hamilton West going to sign? I see that Wings was up in arms about The National pushing this because he thinks that a Unionist is a shoe in to get elected if there is a by election. I’m sure I also saw Neale Hanvey, one of the two Alba MPs, speak against it, he may have voted against it as well. Interesting and perhaps suggests that Alba might not stand in the seat and potentially drain SNP votes. I'm in the constituency. It might not be the Labour banker they seem to think it is. Labour are in charge of the council and are basically in coalition with the Tories. Also this guy has been brought in by HQ at the expense of other local candidates who were excluded from the process. He's also a proper red Tory Starmer yes man, who quit the party under Corbyn. The last Labour guy that won here campaigned hard on local issues, but that won't really be an option for this guy. I reckon it'll be closer than people think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Ld 4/5 favs for mad nads seat even with a 23k maj 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Waldo Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 On 09/06/2023 at 19:29, ICTChris said: Details of the recall petition for Margaret Ferrier. https://www.southlanarkshire.gov.uk/info/200236/politicians/2157/statutory_notices Any P&Bers in Rutherhlen and Hamilton West going to sign? I see that Wings was up in arms about The National pushing this because he thinks that a Unionist is a shoe in to get elected if there is a by election. I’m sure I also saw Neale Hanvey, one of the two Alba MPs, speak against it, he may have voted against it as well. Interesting and perhaps suggests that Alba might not stand in the seat and potentially drain SNP votes. Yes. I know a few who will not vote SNP simply because, if SNP win, they will take it as a vote of confidence and will keep doing what they're doing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 https://twitter.com/ballotboxscot/status/1669587663102398464?s=46&t=VI9PBOGiArQ8qgQBk99O4w Obviously can’t read too much into a single wars result but one thing that’s interesting to me is how appallingly Alba did. The came below the BUP, I don’t even know who they are. Given the ongoing shitshow with the SNP you’d expect that they’d at least pick up some momentum especially in a council by-election but they seem stuck on a deposit losing level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 22.9% turnout seems very low even taking everything into account. British democracy is the best. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, Herc said: 22.9% turnout seems very low even taking everything into account. British democracy is the best. Probably about average for a stand alone by-election in a single ward? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 BUP is British Unionist Party, i just looked it up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moses1924 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 13% swing to Labour would sbit of change if replicated at Westminster election? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 I just realised this is the seat of the SNP councillor who stood down after facing allegations of sexual misconduct, I think that’s lead to a split in the SNP group there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 16 minutes ago, moses1924 said: 13% swing to Labour would sbit of change if replicated at Westminster election? I don't see it. Hopefully the polls will tighten to look as if the Tories will prevent at least a Labour majority and we stick with SNP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, ICTChris said: Probably about average for a stand alone by-election in a single ward? Maybe, just seems quite low. Not as bad as Wigan mind you. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/wigan-election-turnout-potentially-lowest-25767778 5.34% Edited June 16, 2023 by Herc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) Bet 365 giving odds of 14/1 on Johnson being the next Tory leader. Edit: But no odds on Starmer. Edited June 16, 2023 by Suspect Device 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 34 minutes ago, Suspect Device said: Bet 365 giving odds of 14/1 on Johnson being the next Tory leader. Edit: But no odds on Starmer. What an utterly dreadful bunch of charlatans and idiots. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Mordaunt at 11/2 is the bet there imo. What a collection of unpleasant oddballs though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Herc said: Mordaunt at 11/2 is the bet there imo. Apparently she can hold a sword. If that’s a prerequisite then I’m sticking a few quid on Robert Baratheon. Edited June 16, 2023 by Granny Danger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 The favourite in that betting selection. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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