git-intae-thum Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Deja vu. It all feels so similar to the, as it turned out false, optimism in 1997. I would imagine you would have found similar statistics among polling of young people then. History will repeat. Come the elction, we will just be getting a different shade of Tory...and after a few years Tory lite will again be replaced by the full fat variety. And we in Scotland will continue to shut up and eat our cereal. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 12 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: Deja vu. It all feels so similar to the, as it turned out false, optimism in 1997. I would imagine you would have found similar statistics among polling of young people then. History will repeat. Come the elction, we will just be getting a different shade of Tory...and after a few years Tory lite will again be replaced by the full fat variety. And we in Scotland will continue to shut up and eat our cereal. Yeah. Scots voters showing that they are as thick as the rest of the UK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 16 hours ago, houston_bud said: So there's no point in voting for someone, because the others will get back into power at some point in the future? Sorry, but that makes no sense. Vote for the party/candidate that closest aligns to your values, or that you think will do the best job, when each election comes around. There will always be cycles in politics. If everyone took that opinion then no one would vote. Would you tell a left leaning American there's no point in voting Democrats in November as the Republicans will get back into power at some point? I say all this as someone who is not particularly inspired by the current Labour Party. They are still infinitely preferable to the Conservative party. No. What I specifically said was that there was no point in voting for Labour in the long term, as they have been unable to halt either their own or the UK's drift to the right during my lifetime. I don't consider Labour (or the US Democrats) to be "left leaning". IMO, they are just slightly less right leaning than their opponents. As always, I'll be voting for the party which I consider most likely to acheive a left leaning Scotland, preferably without a peerage or royal family. I don't see any way to acheive that whilst remaining in the right wing monarchist UK. 7 hours ago, Left Back said: The article talked about millennial voters in the UK and US, not Scotland and the US. Unfortunately, millennial voters in Scotland are still a subset of millennial voters in the UK. 4 hours ago, git-intae-thum said: Deja vu. It all feels so similar to the, as it turned out false, optimism in 1997. I would imagine you would have found similar statistics among polling of young people then. History will repeat. Come the elction, we will just be getting a different shade of Tory...and after a few years Tory lite will again be replaced by the full fat variety. And we in Scotland will continue to shut up and eat our cereal. Agreed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 18 hours ago, houston_bud said: I say all this as someone who is not particularly inspired by the current Labour Party. They are still infinitely preferable to the Conservative party. I do feel that the word you may well have been reaching for was marginally. If not my apologies but upon reflection, would you not tend to agree? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMoore Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) Tick tok Edited January 16 by RuMoore 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 3 hours ago, lichtgilphead said: No. What I specifically said was that there was no point in voting for Labour in the long term, as they have been unable to halt either their own or the UK's drift to the right during my lifetime. I don't consider Labour (or the US Democrats) to be "left leaning". IMO, they are just slightly less right leaning than their opponents. As always, I'll be voting for the party which I consider most likely to acheive a left leaning Scotland, preferably without a peerage or royal family. I don't see any way to acheive that whilst remaining in the right wing monarchist UK. Unfortunately, millennial voters in Scotland are still a subset of millennial voters in the UK. Agreed You still avoiding the tax that would have to fund the left leaning state? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 32 minutes ago, Left Back said: You still avoiding the tax that would have to fund the left leaning state? I probably pay more tax than you do, but that's irrelevant, Just like most of your contributions to this forum. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 17 minutes ago, Left Back said: You still avoiding the tax that would have to fund the left leaning state? Well the UK could have developed a different taxation policy. One where all of society had a chance. https://taxfoundation.org/blog/scandinavian-social-programs-taxes-2023/#:~:text=Scandinavian countries are well known,require high levels of taxation. 45 years of selfish b@stard Tory and Labour voters put paid to that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 7 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said: I probably pay more tax than you do, but that's irrelevant, Just like most of your contributions to this forum. For you to assume you pay more tax than I do you must be wealthier than the average person seeing as you have no idea of my financial status or how much tax I pay. Despite your left leaning claims you’re still firmly in the camp of looking after number one though. After all you’re doing all you can (by your own admission) to keep it for yourself. Very left leaning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 5 minutes ago, Left Back said: For you to assume you pay more tax than I do you must be wealthier than the average person seeing as you have no idea of my financial status or how much tax I pay. Despite your left leaning claims you’re still firmly in the camp of looking after number one though. After all you’re doing all you can (by your own admission) to keep it for yourself. Very left leaning. I pay tax on my income. I don't pay tax on my pension contributions. It's only you that seems to have a problem with this. Are you trying to ruin another thread by taking it off topic? What does this have to do with polling? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, git-intae-thum said: Well the UK could have developed a different taxation policy. One where all of society had a chance. https://taxfoundation.org/blog/scandinavian-social-programs-taxes-2023/#:~:text=Scandinavian countries are well known,require high levels of taxation. 45 years of selfish b@stard Tory and Labour voters put paid to that. You aren’t allowed to bring that up in this thread apparently. It’s not about polling. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 14 hours ago, Fullerene said: I think the idea was that when you are young and don't own anything, you are quite happy to shake up the world and vote for a radical candidate that offers to do that. Later when you get older, get married, get a house and a car, you are happier with the status quo and start voting conservative. Now with the cost of living crisis and the housing crisis and every other crisis, fewer people are getting to that comfortable stage and so they are less likely to vote conservative. Maybe it was great buying your council house and now it is worth more. Good luck trying to do that if you are renting from a private landlord. Sure, its all about ownership and always has been. Even for this upcoming election, many of these Tory voters who're switching to Labour are doing so because Truss fucked up their mortgages. A problem with the "getting to that comfortable stage" narrative, though, is the idea that you work your way into ownership over time. That the neoliberal era was simply about hard working folk seeing the fruits of their labour. Boomer Tories genuinely believe they were the hardest working generation in history and they view all their ownership as proof of that. Really, they were uniquely placed to benefit from the economic changes that immediately preceded them, the post-war consensus or in USA the New Deal era. They were aware of this even when young and the voting patterns reflect that: (https://jacobin.com/2020/06/generational-politics-millennials-zoomers-socialism) The neoliberals, Thatcher and Reagan especially, sought to create a minor ownership class - a "middle"class - of folk enfranchised enough into the system that they'd blindly defend it. That new middle class also provided cover for the major ownership class to plunder all of society's collective wealth. Edited January 17 by Freedom Farter 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Surely we are not back to AVCs being tax avoidance are we ??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Lol lmao rofl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Belter from The Times the other day - https://archive.ph/FkjpH#selection-2637.0-2637.56 Headline screams "Most Scots no longer trust Nicola Sturgeon !! ". Awful news, if you are a NS fan, until you actually look at the poll which also tells you that she also - in fact - the most trusted politician of those included in this survey, inc Yousaf, Ross, Sarwar, Starmer, Sunak. In fact, the top two trusted politicians they asked about are Yousaf and Sturgeon............its hilarious stuff. Sadly most people are too daft to understand that they are being gaslit and will just read the headline. It also tells us that - despite the car crash the SNP has become in the last year, Labour lead them by a massive 3% in GE Polls. Haud me back.............. The Times then goes on to breathlessly tell us that the current polling suggests that the SNP will have a disaster in the next Holyrood elections.........................although, read further and it is actually polled to gain the largest number of seats - but because Labour will work with the Conservatives, Sarwar will become the next FM. Just let that one sink in for a minute - once again, Labour will work hand in glove with the Conservative party (as they already do it in North Lanarkshire council and Edinburgh Council and one other I cant remember). Labour in 2024 under Starmer and Sarwar - the very definition of political expediency. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 4 hours ago, Leith Green said: Belter from The Times the other day - https://archive.ph/FkjpH#selection-2637.0-2637.56 Headline screams "Most Scots no longer trust Nicola Sturgeon !! ". Awful news, if you are a NS fan, until you actually look at the poll which also tells you that she also - in fact - the most trusted politician of those included in this survey, inc Yousaf, Ross, Sarwar, Starmer, Sunak. In fact, the top two trusted politicians they asked about are Yousaf and Sturgeon............its hilarious stuff. Sadly most people are too daft to understand that they are being gaslit and will just read the headline. It also tells us that - despite the car crash the SNP has become in the last year, Labour lead them by a massive 3% in GE Polls. Haud me back.............. The Times then goes on to breathlessly tell us that the current polling suggests that the SNP will have a disaster in the next Holyrood elections.........................although, read further and it is actually polled to gain the largest number of seats - but because Labour will work with the Conservatives, Sarwar will become the next FM. Just let that one sink in for a minute - once again, Labour will work hand in glove with the Conservative party (as they already do it in North Lanarkshire council and Edinburgh Council and one other I cant remember). Labour in 2024 under Starmer and Sarwar - the very definition of political expediency. Why would Scots need to trust Sturgeon ? It's a bizarre question to ask given she is no longer a govt minister never mind FM. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 6 hours ago, Billy Jean King said: Why would Scots need to trust Sturgeon ? It's a bizarre question to ask given she is no longer a govt minister never mind FM. Only if you have selective amnesia and forget that her WhatsApp message excuses have looked as dodgy as a twelve bob bit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi2 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Hopefully the Tartan Tories will be up front before the GE about their neoliberal dream to take a scorched earth policy towards Scottish public services post-Independence, all to keep the fat cats taxes as low as possible and chase a maybe, maybe rejoin the EU 'someday'...all the while letting the Bank of England set Scotland's interest rates. Wouldn't need the full fat Tories back in power in Westminster as you could enjoy the diet version in Scotland (while being 'Independent' in name only as your currency amd economic levers still rest in London...and of course, you get to keep the monarchy as well...win, win -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Fucking hell 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTee Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 3 hours ago, Jedi2 said: Hopefully the Tartan Tories will be up front before the GE about their neoliberal dream to take a scorched earth policy towards Scottish public services post-Independence, all to keep the fat cats taxes as low as possible and chase a maybe, maybe rejoin the EU 'someday'...all the while letting the Bank of England set Scotland's interest rates. Wouldn't need the full fat Tories back in power in Westminster as you could enjoy the diet version in Scotland (while being 'Independent' in name only as your currency amd economic levers still rest in London...and of course, you get to keep the monarchy as well...win, win Self loathing Scottish cringe right there. 'YOUR currency and economic levers'. Get yourself to f**k with that shi*e. Red Tory. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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