Latest Polls and Latest Odds

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, AyrAtlanta said:

I’d like to believe it was mainly down to older folk’s susceptibility to being conned by biased media but I don’t know for sure.

I’ve seen a suggestion that as folk grow older that ‘personal financial security’ (ie not ending up in poverty) becomes incredibly important.

They believe the Tories are the party to ensure that.

I honestly have no idea why they think this to be the case other than the myth of Labour wanting to give all the money to students/druggies/single mums/dole scroungers.

Sadly the arguments but forward to combat this perception are not always helpful.

[AyrAtlanta]

57 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I’ve seen a suggestion that as folk grow older that ‘personal financial security’ (ie not ending up in poverty) becomes incredibly important.

They believe the Tories are the party to ensure that.

I honestly have no idea why they think this to be the case other than the myth of Labour wanting to give all the money to students/druggies/single mums/dole scroungers.

Sadly the arguments but forward to combat this perception are not always helpful.

Another one from my experience is that across the spectrum, older folk are far more patriotic than folk my age.

 Longing for the days when Old Blighty was ruling the waves around far-flung rock formations and when Muslims and non-white people were just stories in a newspaper.

I find their general inability to work a mobile phone to be a good explanation of their political stance. Refusal to even try and adapt to change.

[Soapy FFC]

2 hours ago, AyrAtlanta said:

When it comes to voting in an election, that age group makes up a larger proportion of the turnout so they definitely do have an impact.

Yes I am happy to lump them in, as I am with my own working class older relatives, because politics and statistics rely on generalisations. Doesn’t mean I look at my own gran in disgust as I know which way she votes. Just means I recognise her generation is the problem.

Is the problem not that the younger generations don't vote? You can't blame the generation that actually pulls the finger out to go and vote. Blame the younger ones for complaining rather than voting. 

[eindhovendee]

2 hours ago, AyrAtlanta said:

When it comes to voting in an election, that age group makes up a larger proportion of the turnout so they definitely do have an impact.

Yes I am happy to lump them in, as I am with my own working class older relatives, because politics and statistics rely on generalisations. Doesn’t mean I look at my own gran in disgust as I know which way she votes. Just means I recognise her generation is the problem.

 

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

But the sad/worrying thing is that over several years older folk have been more likely to vote Tory.  This suggests as folk get older they become more right-wing.

Of course this is aggregated and there will be lots of folk who this does not apply to but it will be interesting to see if the trend continues.

Surely there will have been academic studies of this.

Seems to be a combination of all of the things mentioned in these and other posts according to the BBC's research. 

I have an auntie in her mid 80s living in Lochee that votes Tory.

She has bought the Daily Express every day as long as I've been alive and believes everything she reads rather than look out the window. 

She is waiting on being attacked by hordes of immigrants during a heatwave while seeing visions of Princess Diana in the clouds. A full on fruitloop but she gets a vote. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zd9bd6f/revision/4

[Granny Danger]

14 minutes ago, AyrAtlanta said:

Another one from my experience is that across the spectrum, older folk are far more patriotic than folk my age.

 Longing for the days when Old Blighty was ruling the waves around far-flung rock formations and when Muslims and non-white people were just stories in a newspaper.

I find their general inability to work a mobile phone to be a good explanation of their political stance. Refusal to even try and adapt to change.

Hopefully that will fade out.  I was born in 1955 so all of the adults I encountered (parents, other adult relatives, teachers) would have come through the war and have been influenced by events.

In a few years time that will no longer be the case and any associated ‘patriotism’ will dissipate.

The whole Muslim thing is a different and more complex issue which is not going anywhere soon.

[carpetmonster]

21 minutes ago, AyrAtlanta said:

 

I find their general inability to work a mobile phone to be a good explanation of their political stance. Refusal to even try and adapt to change.

Well it’s certainly for the best they don’t discover Twitter and get even more racist and mental, TBF. 

[BFTD]

15 minutes ago, Soapy FFC said:

Is the problem not that the younger generations don't vote? You can't blame the generation that actually pulls the finger out to go and vote. Blame the younger ones for complaining rather than voting. 

You can blame them for who they vote for, though.

TBF to the youngsters of every generation, they've literally just emerged from a life where they had no agency and were indoctrinated into thinking that anyone older than them was in charge and had to be obeyed, often in nonsensical and/or harmful ways. Little wonder they either continue down that train of thought well into adulthood, or engage in pointless rebellion over less important things than which set of b*****ds make the decisions that affect every facet of their lives.

[AyrAtlanta]

13 minutes ago, Soapy FFC said:

Is the problem not that the younger generations don't vote? You can't blame the generation that actually pulls the finger out to go and vote. Blame the younger ones for complaining rather than voting. 

Both can be true. You don’t get away with voting for clowns just because you participated. At the same time, there is a problem with my generation which can’t be solved. Politics is inherently boring as f**k if it doesn’t interest you. I also get the feeling from folk I know that they hold the belief that one vote changes nothing so they don’t bother.

[BFTD]

2 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

Well it’s certainly for the best they don’t discover Twitter and get even more racist and mental, TBF. 

If my old man used the internet, I would genuinely worry about him bombing a mosque or something similar.

It's frankly terrifying how newspapers have warped his mind in ways that he can't even justify when questioned. He lives in a nice, thriving area and has never experienced problems with people of different races. He never showed racist or fascist tendencies well into his forties, but is now a fearful old man convinced that the furriners and communists are coming for him.

Just now, AyrAtlanta said:

Both can be true. You don’t get away with voting for clowns just because you participated. At the same time, there is a problem with my generation which can’t be solved. Politics is inherently boring as f**k if it doesn’t interest you. I also get the feeling from folk I know that they hold the belief that one vote changes nothing so they don’t bother.

Which generation? Every generation of young adults from the Boomers on back has had low voter turnout. There was a lot of lefty protesting in the Sixties, but youngsters still didn't do a lot of the important thing: voting.

I doubt that'll change, because what generation of adults fancies having their kids, who they've just finished potty training, outnumber them at the ballot box? It would take adults to begin making their kids feel like they make active choices in their lives from a young age, rather than just being dragged along and told to do as they're told, and that's a lot of work.

[AyrAtlanta]

1 minute ago, BFTD said:

.Which generation? Every generation of young adults from the Boomers on back has had low voter turnout. There was a lot of lefty protesting in the Sixties, but youngsters still didn't do a lot of the important thing: voting.

I doubt that'll change, because what generation of adults fancies having their kids, who they've just finished potty training, outnumber them at the ballot box? It would take adults to begin making their kids feel like they make active choices in their lives from a young age, rather than just being dragged along and told to do as they're told, and that's a lot of work.

I’m 18-24 and from a small village and I know precisely one person my age from there that will be voting. And he votes Tory only because his dad told him to. The vast majority of the voters of my age group are Uni students, but outside that it’s staggering how little people care.

In fact, the other night I had to explain to my Tory voting friend the basics of an election and how you’re not actually voting for Sunak or Starmer, but for the puppet they’ve stuck on your local ballot.

[eindhovendee]

12 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The whole Muslim thing is a different and more complex issue which is not going anywhere soon.

I don't know about Scotland but in England this is the main driving force behind Brexit, right wing Tories and now the Reform Party.

Every negative story about Muslims in newspapers has comments about Farage being right about immigration, its always Muslims doing these things and Tommy Robinson can't get to say and do what Muslims can.

It's endless and all stokes the predominantly middle aged and above into thinking that the latest version of UKIP is the answer and why Sunak has gone all out for the ludicrous Rwanda plan.

As long as Farage and his cronies get a platform and funding its not going to get any better. There are enough English people happy to believe what they hear and vote for a party on the right. 

Looking at the MAGA mob across the pond as a guide I'd say we're not too far off that level of stupidity from the average English voter. I am generalising but the amount of racism you can hear and read from people with nothing to worry about is frightening. 

[BFTD]

10 minutes ago, AyrAtlanta said:

I’m 18-24 and from a small village and I know precisely one person my age from there that will be voting. And he votes Tory only because his dad told him to. The vast majority of the voters of my age group are Uni students, but outside that it’s staggering how little people care.

In fact, the other night I had to explain to my Tory voting friend the basics of an election and how you’re not actually voting for Sunak or Starmer, but for the puppet they’ve stuck on your local ballot.

I'm GenX, and the main thing older generations had to say about us at your age was that we were apathetic and lazy, and didn't care enough about the important things in life.

That's the main thing my generation seems to say about your generation now. What a bunch of c***s we all grow into.

9 minutes ago, eindhovendee said:

I don't know about Scotland but in England this is the main driving force behind Brexit, right wing Tories and now the Reform Party.

Every negative story about Muslims in newspapers has comments about Farage being right about immigration, its always Muslims doing these things and Tommy Robinson can't get to say and do what Muslims can.

It's endless and all stokes the predominantly middle aged and above into thinking that the latest version of UKIP is the answer and why Sunak has gone all out for the ludicrous Rwanda plan.

As long as Farage and his cronies get a platform and funding its not going to get any better. There are enough English people happy to believe what they hear and vote for a party on the right. 

Looking at the MAGA mob across the pond as a guide I'd say we're not too far off that level of stupidity from the average English voter. I am generalising but the amount of racism you can hear and read from people with nothing to worry about is frightening. 

If you were feeling optimistic, you could say that every generation has their Oswald Moseley or Enoch Powell - bigots who claim to know what Britain is, and that there's no black in the Union Jack. They cause a certain amount of pandering to racist ideals, but overall they fail, and most people get on with living their lives around each other without incident. We're living in a time of particular upheaval in some parts of the world, with people being displaced in high numbers again, and when that inevitably calms down Britons will be more likely to chill the f**k out and realise that having Syrians living in their wee town has barely affected them one way or another.

If you're a pessimist, you'd say that it's incredibly depressing that a sizable minority portion of society are always obsessed with skin colour and religion, and that it shows no sign of dying out as time goes on. Racism and totalitarianism are always on the rise when people find themselves worse off economically, and nobody liable to run the UK seems likely to do anything but funnel more and more of the country's wealth into the pockets of those who already have everything, so that's not a trend that's likely to die for a good long while yet.

So, I dunno...nuclear annihilation? It sounds more and more appealing every year TBH, so long as they do it right (which they wouldn't, of course  ).

[Soapy FFC]

1 hour ago, AyrAtlanta said:

I’m 18-24 and from a small village and I know precisely one person my age from there that will be voting. And he votes Tory only because his dad told him to. The vast majority of the voters of my age group are Uni students, but outside that it’s staggering how little people care.

 

That's an interesting point. Maybe controversial, but does that indicate there is a link between voting and intelligence, if you make the sweeping assumption that the more intelligent people go to university. Or is it that those who go to university, no matter the level of intelligence, are exposed to a wider range of views, influences and experiences that make them see why voting is important. 

[AyrAtlanta]

30 minutes ago, Soapy FFC said:

That's an interesting point. Maybe controversial, but does that indicate there is a link between voting and intelligence, if you make the sweeping assumption that the more intelligent people go to university. Or is it that those who go to university, no matter the level of intelligence, are exposed to a wider range of views, influences and experiences that make them see why voting is important. 

There is definitely some sort of link between voting and intelligence I’d say but this part is my view. Not everyone at uni is intelligent, not even close, but it’s the environment they are in that causes it. Big city, living and working beside people from all over the place and anyone that isn’t being propped up by the Bank of Mummy and Daddy has to watch every penny.

[Granny Danger]

7 minutes ago, AyrAtlanta said:

There is definitely some sort of link between voting and intelligence I’d say but this part is my view. Not everyone at uni is intelligent, not even close, but it’s the environment they are in that causes it. Big city, living and working beside people from all over the place and anyone that isn’t being propped up by the Bank of Mummy and Daddy has to watch every penny.

I’d imagine young people in a place of learning surrounded by other similar folk you will be inclined to be politically engaged than someone from the same age group on the dole or in a low wage work environment.

 

[BFTD]

I've been around a lot of youngsters recently^*, and I can't think of any who seemed remotely interested in politics. Not just that they don't discuss it with auld farts like me, but with each other. My son also tells me that it's not something anyone he knows really talks about either. There'll obviously be some, but I'll bet they shut up about it around friends or become as unpopular as the Spartists.

Seems similar to when I was their age in the Nineties; once the optimism about New Labour dissipated, everyone seemed to switch off again. The general feeling seems to be that politics is for old men, which...well, QED.

^{* yes, yes, the conditions of my bail, etc.}

[Suspect Device]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

I’d imagine young people in a place of learning surrounded by other similar folk you will be inclined to be politically engaged than someone from the same age group on the dole or in a low wage work environment.

 

 

You'd imagine wrong. Even the students on my course in politics don't all vote. I was amazed at that revelation. Judging by how few actually bother going to lectures I'm not sure they're even that interested in politics. 

12 attending out of 180 was a low point. Friday morning 9am lecture.

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, Suspect Device said:

 

You'd imagine wrong. Even the students on my course in politics don't all vote. I was amazed at that revelation. Judging by how few actually bother going to lectures I'm not sure they're even that interested in politics. 

12 attending out of 180 was a low point. Friday morning 9am lecture.

Maybe they don’t like the company?

 

 

 

ETA just joking, I’m sure you’re a really nice person.

Edited June 1 by Granny Danger

[Freedom Farter]

To chime in again on the age-related voting patterns discussion above:

On 31/05/2024 at 16:44, Freedom Farter said:

However, there is a genuine point to the unique voting patterns of the baby boomer generation in UK and USA. They benefited from the keynesianism of the New Deal era (US) or post-war consensus (Europe) but ushered in Regan's and Thatcher's neoliberalism, the fruits of which they enjoyed for themselves as a one-off, generational reward. We're obviously talking in general terms here, plenty baby boomer generation individuals who didn't vote that way and have been as harmed by the effects as anyone else.

[scottsdad]

8 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Hopefully that will fade out.  I was born in 1955 so all of the adults I encountered (parents, other adult relatives, teachers) would have come through the war and have been influenced by events.

In a few years time that will no longer be the case and any associated ‘patriotism’ will dissipate.

The whole Muslim thing is a different and more complex issue which is not going anywhere soon.