Ian Watkins

[Mr. Brightside]

[Dunning1874]

What would you say if it affected you first hand, somebody brutally murdered your family, how would you feel knowing he would be out of jail again?

Enraged, but the feelings of victims on the suitability of the punishment for the criminal absolutely should not feature in decision making in the justice system. Precisely because it pertains to someone close to them, their feelings on the issue are clouded by emotion - emotion which most likely includes a desire for revenge - therefore they're incapable of coming to a rational judgement on how the criminal should be treated.

This argument in favour of the death penalty is a total non-sequitur.

[DEEJANGO]

Where have the fathers and grandparents been through all this?

How am I suppose to know that?

So basically you are saying any kid that is abused by a parent should be taken away from the other parent and grandparents and given a new identity and adopted by a whole new family?

[ICTChris]

One of the children involved was reported to be in foster care in the press. If the father or other family members were in a position to care for them you'd have to assume that they would have been released to their custody but obviously you don't know.

[welshbairn]

Where have the fathers and grandparents been through all this?

Are you suggesting they knew about it, or should have done?

[Sergeant Wilson]

One of the children involved was reported to be in foster care in the press. If the father or other family members were in a position to care for them you'd have to assume that they would have been released to their custody but obviously you don't know.

I'd imagine the fathers were off like two bob rockets when they found out the mad bints were pregnant.

[DEEJANGO]

Where did I say that?

By your previous posts it seems like that's what your trying to say ie the kids should be taken into care and given new identities even if they have a father or grandparents to take care of them.

I'm not going to get into a boring Standfree v XBL type spat over this, I just found it strange that you would say something like that.

ICTChris is correct about assuming the parents or other family members getting custody but as he has said we don't know but would be the obvious solution rather then adopting them out and giving them new identities.

[welshbairn]

You don't think a father would notice things like their child being given drugs? Or the child's mother disappearing off to hotels with Ian Watkins?

Or if you really want to be blunt about it, the state of the child's anus after Ian Watkins has tried to penetrate it. Not really something you could miss while changing a nappy IMO.

I think you need to wise up.

You clearly know more about the family background than me, like whether the father lived with the mother an child, for a start. I don't think this topic is suitable for your usual point scoring style though. Is XBL not around?

[welshbairn]

Done.

[welshbairn]

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by StandFree03. View it anyway? No.

[DEEJANGO]

if you really want to be blunt about it, the state of the child's anus after Ian Watkins has tried to penetrate it. Not really something you could miss while changing a nappy IMO.

You are one creepy fucker btw.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Like they two people that killed Lee Rigby for instance, death penalty all the way for me.

Yeah that's a fucking brilliant idea.

So far they've:

1. Killed a soldier on british soil in very barbaric and public fashion

2. Milked the publicity of it

3. Tried to end it by "death by cop"

4. Pled "Not Guilty" in order to further publicise the act

5. Stated numerous times they want to be martyrs.

The only thing missing to make this a perfect plan is for them is to die, publicly, as martyrs.

Your solution?

Kill Them.

This means they'll have had no meaningful (to them) punishment whatsoever, apart from some pretty average prison scran.

Genius.

[Dunning1874]

Fucking hell, at least the "bairn" part of his username is accurate.

Anyway, does nobody else find it odd that there's not been any mention of the fathers? I would have thought the tabloids would have tried for an interview with them.

As with publishing the names of the mothers, they couldn't legally do anything with the fathers to avoid revealing the identity of the children surely? Even if they run an interview without naming them it's still possible some details they mention could lead people to the children.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

TBH I'm not sure how this works, but the interests and well-being of the children come before anyone else's rights, so if it's in their best interests to be moved to a foster family with new identities etc, then that's what should happen.

I had a quick read of the court report, and missed the exact ages of the children involved, hopefully they're young enough that they will have no memory of what happened, and if so, they should be given every chance never to find out, so if the fathers have no future part in their upbringing, tough.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

The only way they can get a shot at a normal upbringing and life is if they are moved to Foster families. People will know who they are and what's happened where they live at the moment, it would be impossible for them to grow up in that environment IMO.

Exactly. Their welfare is more important than anyone else's in this situation. If fostering/new identities gives them a shot at a normal life, then it's the only option.

[blanco]

TBH I'm not sure how this works, but the interests and well-being of the children come before anyone else's rights, so if it's in their best interests to be moved to a foster family with new identities etc, then that's what should happen.

I had a quick read of the court report, and missed the exact ages of the children involved, hopefully they're young enough that they will have no memory of what happened, and if so, they should be given every chance never to find out, so if the fathers have no future part in their upbringing, tough.

These kids should be fostered/adopted in other parts of the country and done so with every part of their life history so far destroyed by social services to make sure that they can never be identified.

If the fathers or grandparents weren't alert enough to see what was going on with those kids then their feelings shouldn't be taken into consideration on the kids futures.

[The OP]

If the fathers or grandparents weren't alert enough to see what was going on with those kids then their feelings shouldn't be taken into consideration on the kids futures.

Your point fell down here. You're saying that from a position of complete ignorance. You have absolutely no idea what they should or should not have known.

[DEEJANGO]

What a lot of shite.

Getting fostered out and shipped from one family to the next is a mental strain on any young child and often leads to anti social behaviour in later years.

[The OP]

What a lot of shite. Getting fostered out and shipped from one family to the next is a mental strain on any young child and often leads to anti social behaviour in later years.

In fairness, are they not babies?

I don't know much about child psychology but hopefully the fact that they are babies will lessen the trauma and the sense of upheaval.

[Dunning1874]

What a lot of shite. Getting fostered out and shipped from one family to the next is a mental strain on any young child and often leads to anti social behaviour in later years.

Right enough, it'd be much less of a mental strain to stay with your biological family and find out you were raped as a baby, with your mother being a willing accomplice in the act.

Anyway, none of us know the circumstances here. It could be that we're dealing with two fathers who don't even know they have kids, grandparents who are deceased, etc. As long as these kids are protected, that's the main thing.