SGMilne Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 People have been saying Watson's knees have been shot for 5 years and he's still regularly playing. You're argument doesn't really add up anyway. On the one hand, you're backing up McNamara signing Dillon because it's the best use of his money. On the other hand you don't trust him to spend money on other people, and nor do you trust him to organise the defence. He's had 2 years to do that and he hasn't managed it. To suggest we need another defender isn't simplistic. We can't just sign people non stop without losing anyone. The person who should go first is the out of contract "reserve" Who has played 32 times this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabianKnight Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Watson's knees are bust. He's maybe playing regularly but it's not like he's playing to his best due to not being able to train as hard as others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 People have been saying Watson's knees have been shot for 5 years and he's still regularly playing. You're argument doesn't really add up anyway. On the one hand, you're backing up McNamara signing Dillon because it's the best use of his money. O To be fair, I'm dismissing your blithe suggestion that the money would be better spent elsewhere by pointing out that if the man who makes these decisions thought that he'd have spent it elsewhere. I make no particular comment about Dillon's ability although the fact that he's been a stable part of a good defence under previous managers suggests to me that the problem is systemic rather than down to individuals. On the other hand you don't trust him to spend money on other people, and nor do you trust him to organise the defence. He's had 2 years to do that and he hasn't managed it. To suggest we need another defender isn't simplistic. We can't just sign people non stop without losing anyone. The person who should go first is the out of contract "reserve" Who has played 32 times this season I'm really not clear how you're coming to these conclusions. Just to be clear - I do trust him to spend money and I would give him a chance to try to improve the organisation of the team, although I have reservations about his ability to do that. Whilst others would simply say - enough, get him out and get someone else in - I'd prefer - there are difficulties here, let's see what you've learned and how you can apply that to fix those difficulties. I think playing 32 times this season shows that Dillon is not simply a reserve and shows how much he is needed. If there comes a time when he can't get in the team because he's never the best option then we can safely let him go but we're clearly nowhere near that stage. When we are no doubt he'll be allowed to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 His affinity for the club should have nothing to do with it. There are people who are genuinely talking on social media about how Sean Dillon deserves a contract because he's a nice guy and/or because long service should be rewarded. What you're suggesting there is that Sean Dillon is the best player McNamara could have found for the cash he's spending, and you must know that's likely not to be true. There's all this talk about how versatile he is, but that's not true either. The only position he's really capable of playing is right back. Yes, he has played at centre back and left back, but when he does people have ready made excuses for how badly he did by saying he's not comfortable there. We must all agree that the defence needs new blood in it, and yet the only one we can feasibly get rid of without paying people off is the guy who is deemed not good enough to start in it unless there's an emergency. And yet we keep him. It's bad management from a bad manager. By the way, if you do want a lazy suggestion for a player we could used instead of Dillon next season on less money who is just as effective and probably moreso, I could be facetious and say Keith Watson. And I wouldn't be wrong. But he's not good enough either. I don't agree. He can play anywhere across the back four and do a decent job but of course his natural position is at right back. I've already stated this but Dillon is needed to do more than just be a player at United. We need experienced members of the squad around the club. Who else is there to offer advice to younger players? Dillon and Rankin are the only two who might spring to mind. If I was a young defender do I go and speak to Morris, Fojut or McGowan? Not really, I would go and see someone who is approaching ten years of service, has played hundreds of games for the club and is a player who has won and played in a number of finals under a variety of managers. The fact that he is club captain shows that he offers so much more than just the playing side of things. I don't expect to change anyone's mind on this, and there are more than a few people who agree with you about Dillon but for me I think it is a a solid and worthwhile piece of business for the team and for the club. As for the defence needing new blood, that isn't how I see it personally. The defence needs better organisation and training, there are four or five decent defenders in the squad, the management and coaches have not got the best out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheels Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Has anyone seen much of the U20s this season? Any standouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGMilne Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I'm really not clear how you're coming to these conclusions. Just to be clear - I do trust him to spend money and I would give him a chance to try to improve the organisation of the team, although I have reservations about his ability to do that. Whilst others would simply say - enough, get him out and get someone else in - I'd prefer - there are difficulties here, let's see what you've learned and how you can apply that to fix those difficulties. I think playing 32 times this season shows that Dillon is not simply a reserve and shows how much he is needed. If there comes a time when he can't get in the team because he's never the best option then we can safely let him go but we're clearly nowhere near that stage. When we are no doubt he'll be allowed to leave. He's played 32 times and he's not considered a first choice, and to me that shows the importance of the backup being good enough. Dillon isn't. There's a difference between saying he's needed now when the transfer window is closed and next season when McNamara (or someone else) has had a summer to re-assess. And to say he's been part of a good defence over the years is just wrong. Over the last four seasons United have been the team who have conceded the most goals in the top six. The defence has been a problem for some time, which is why forums have been full of people saying 'We should sign Andy Webster; he'll sort it out' since he left. In terms of what he actually offers, I don't think it's a vocal captain. It certainly isn't goals (he's scored 1), and despite I think just about every one of his games this season coming at fullback (because McNamara obviously doesn't rate him in the centre) he has only made one assist, which is not a favourable comparison against anyone who has played at fullback for a lengthy spell at any Premiership club this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGMilne Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I don't agree. He can play anywhere across the back four and do a decent job but of course his natural position is at right back. I've already stated this but Dillon is needed to do more than just be a player at United. We need experienced members of the squad around the club. Who else is there to offer advice to younger players? Dillon and Rankin are the only two who might spring to mind. If I was a young defender do I go and speak to Morris, Fojut or McGowan? Not really, I would go and see someone who is approaching ten years of service, has played hundreds of games for the club and is a player who has won and played in a number of finals under a variety of managers. The fact that he is club captain shows that he offers so much more than just the playing side of things. I don't expect to change anyone's mind on this, and there are more than a few people who agree with you about Dillon but for me I think it is a a solid and worthwhile piece of business for the team and for the club. As for the defence needing new blood, that isn't how I see it personally. The defence needs better organisation and training, there are four or five decent defenders in the squad, the management and coaches have not got the best out of them. You're entitled to your opinion but I think you're wrong. I'm led to believe that when they were here, the young players looked up to GMS, Armstrong and even Watson. They were the 'old guard' and the locker room leaders of the youngsters. When they left it - as I was told - "Tore the heart out of the dressing room". Just because Dillon is experienced, it doesn't mean he's irreplaceable. A young player could always speak to McNamara, who played in Dillon's position but far better. Or we could sign someone else who isn't a kid and they could ask them? Or even ask McGowan, who - although young - has shown his leadership skills off the park if not on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 He's played 32 times and he's not considered a first choice, and to me that shows the importance of the backup being good enough. Dillon isn't. There's a difference between saying he's needed now when the transfer window is closed and next season when McNamara (or someone else) has had a summer to re-assess. And to say he's been part of a good defence over the years is just wrong. Over the last four seasons United have been the team who have conceded the most goals in the top six. The defence has been a problem for some time, which is why forums have been full of people saying 'We should sign Andy Webster; he'll sort it out' since he left. In terms of what he actually offers, I don't think it's a vocal captain. It certainly isn't goals (he's scored 1), and despite I think just about every one of his games this season coming at fullback (because McNamara obviously doesn't rate him in the centre) he has only made one assist, which is not a favourable comparison against anyone who has played at fullback for a lengthy spell at any Premiership club this season. Och, this is just scattergun ranting. You don't rate him, that's fair enough. Just don't pretend that your view is somehow logically unavoidable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGMilne Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Och, this is just scattergun ranting. You don't rate him, that's fair enough. Just don't pretend that your view is somehow logically unavoidable. What part of what I'm saying is wrong? He's primarily a fullback who doesn't contribute in terms of goals (not that that's essential) or assists (which is important to a team like ours). He's been part of the top six's worst defence for the last 4 seasons in spite of you saying we have or at least have had a good defence, and he's played 32 games which shows that in spite of him signing a 2 year deal and people saying that he won't play much, history shows that he probably will. It's a bad signing. I've yet to hear an argument to suggest that it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 What part of what I'm saying is wrong? He's primarily a fullback who doesn't contribute in terms of goals (not that that's essential) or assists (which is important to a team like ours). He's been part of the top six's worst defence for the last 4 seasons in spite of you saying we have a good defence, and he's played 32 games which shows that in spite of him signing a 2 year deal and people saying that he won't play much, history shows that he probably will. It's a bad signing. I've yet to hear an argument to suggest that it's not. But how do I narrow it down? Virtually every sentence of every post contains some logical or factual error. I could be here all day pointing out the extent of your wrongness but where would that get us? What would it achieve? Would you be enlightened or would you simply move on to the next strawman to attack. The whole thing just seems so futile. Even in the above post you're at: He's been part of the top six's worst defence for the last 4 seasons in spite of you saying we have a good defence I didn't say that and you can't honestly believe that I did say it but still, here you are, pretending that I said it in order to then argue against something which I haven't said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGMilne Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 the fact that he's been a stable part of a good defence under previous managers But how do I narrow it down? Virtually every sentence of every post contains some logical or factual error. I could be here all day pointing out the extent of your wrongness but where would that get us? What would it achieve? Would you be enlightened or would you simply move on to the next strawman to attack. The whole thing just seems so futile. Even in the above post you're at: I didn't say that and you can't honestly believe that I did say it but still, here you are, pretending that I said it in order to then argue against something which I haven't said. The above post - and incidentally, you'll see that I edited my post at 11.59 to amend my post to say 'in spite of you saying we have or at least have had a good defence' which doesn't show up in a post you finalised at 12.07 - has you saying you think he's been part of a good defence. He hasn't been for at least four years. The last time we had a good defence was under Craig Levein, and Levein didn't rate Dillon as a first choice right back. You say there are factual or logical errors in my post. In that particular one you're quoting, where are the factual errors? The following are facts I've presented to you. He's scored one goal this season. Not quite sure how you can dispute that. He's assisted one goal this season. A cross which McGowan converted. Again, this is accurate. His record doesn't stand against other fullbacks. Example - Graeme Shinnie has assisted 9 times, Andy Considine 5, David Raven 5, Adam Matthews 4 etc) He's played 32 games He's not considered a first choice pick. We've had the worst defence in the top six for the last 4 seasons. Which facts are incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Give it a fucking rest, son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGMilne Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Give it a fucking rest, son. Great comeback. Throw the insults, make the accusations, avoid the debate. I saw your comment about East Football there too before you edited it out. Classy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffelz Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Well played, Mr Milne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Great comeback. Throw the insults, make the accusations, avoid the debate. I saw your comment that you edited out about East Football there too before you edited it out. Classy. What was the debate Stuart? Edit: Hey Stu. It was an insult - that's why I edited it out. Unnecessary and mean. They're idiots on East Football, y'know. I hope that reference didn't hurt your feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarto Mutiny Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hey, I like Sean Dillon. And that has to count for something. We have no idea what terms he has signed on. He might be on a decent wage, but then again he might be on £5 and a Mars bar a week for all we know. Obviously, we do need other defenders too. Or a manager who knows how to organise a defence. Or ideally both. But I have no problem with this signing in itself. We'll see what else develops from here. I'm taking a rather sentimental view here, but what are we without sentiment? Robots, that's what. ROBOTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 You're entitled to your opinion but I think you're wrong. My sentiments exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peeeel Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Take it Dillo will be shite on next years FM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 Dillon a cert to score in the derby. Possibly an o.g. The two years bit is what gets me. Given he's not a starter in any position, I'm assuming this means there's some reasons other than playing ability for him being kept around for a while longer, such as coaching or influence in the changing room. We certainly lack leaders all over the park, so maybe that's part of the thinking considering Jackie rates him as captain material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shengus Khan Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 2 years answering the ticket office phone is what I heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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