DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 You see it as justifying. I see it as debate. Why would you be scared of discussing your reasoning? There are MANY reasons why I'm voting Yes. For the last 30 years, we have paid more into Westminster than we've got out. I am heartily sick of how unequal this country is. Foodbanks and austerity cuts devastate lives whilst the ConDem cabinet, with multiple millionaires ensure rich people in the South East prosper. We have only had the Government we have voted for TWICE since World War 2. Oil? Read this: There are MANY, MANY more reasons, that's only a few. Both campaigns have been abysmal. NO have been very negative with ludicrous predictions of impending doom. YES have been full of promises that thinks will be better - but without any real evidence to back it up. The truth is that no-one really knows what will happen - it's all guesswork - with both sides going for the most extreme viewpoints to back their case. My own gut instinct is that thimgs actually would not be substantially different - the problem is the political elite who keep making piss-poor decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal-blue Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 The narrow mindedness from the Nationalists is getting rather cringey to be honest. This guff that if you are voting "No" means your either a bigot, a Rangers man, part of BetterTogether or a Tory lover, sums up the overall mentality. What is been proposed by the SNP isn't independence, first and foremost. Moving from one parliament to another makes a mockery of the meaning 'independence'. The UK is so bad that Salmond wants to keep the NATO, the pound and the monarchy!? Ridiculous I'm voting No because I simply don't trust the SNP and there are far too many major issues unanswered. I would love a socialist Scotland but that's not going to happen under the Nationalists quite clearly. There is STILL no answers from the SNP with regards to currency and all we keep hearing is how the oil is going to save us. I'm proud of the fact I have family in North England and I don't want them to suddenly become foreigners with a border between us 150 miles down the road Is this a wind up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P45 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 The narrow mindedness from the Nationalists is getting rather cringey to be honest. This guff that if you are voting "No" means your either a bigot, a Rangers man, part of BetterTogether or a Tory lover, sums up the overall mentality. What is been proposed by the SNP isn't independence, first and foremost. Moving from one parliament to another makes a mockery of the meaning 'independence'. The UK is so bad that Salmond wants to keep the NATO, the pound and the monarchy!? Ridiculous I'm voting No because I simply don't trust the SNP and there are far too many major issues unanswered. I would love a socialist Scotland but that's not going to happen under the Nationalists quite clearly. There is STILL no answers from the SNP with regards to currency and all we keep hearing is how the oil is going to save us. I'm proud of the fact I have family in North England and I don't want them to suddenly become foreigners with a border between us 150 miles down the road What like? The currency question has been answered. It suits the rest of the UK for us to use the pound so there will be a Sterling zone. Even Alistair Darling has said it would be logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 If you are so confident on No winning why are you even on here? It's in the bag. It's not even worth thinking about. Celtic are going to win the league. Does that mean Celtic fans needn't bother discussing football next season? What a strange post. I'm not that interested in the end result. I'll respect the views of voters either way. I'm one very much in the 'it will make little difference to me one way or the other ' camp. Its like the South Park sketch about Obama's election with the guy running around shouting Its Channnnnge... Whereas in fact those expecting actual change have been bitterly disappointed. The problems, successes and opportunities in Scotland now will exist in the future Union or no Union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 What like? The currency question has been answered. It suits the rest of the UK for us to use the pound so there will be a Sterling zone. Even Alistair Darling has said it would be logical. The currency question hasn't been answered. Arrogantly telling another country that they will be entering into a Union with you on currency is just that. An arrogant proclamation that the SNP can in no way deliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Both campaigns have been abysmal. NO have been very negative with ludicrous predictions of impending doom. YES have been full of promises that thinks will be better - but without any real evidence to back it up. The truth is that no-one really knows what will happen - it's all guesswork - with both sides going for the most extreme viewpoints to back their case. My own gut instinct is that thimgs actually would not be substantially different - the problem is the political elite who keep making piss-poor decisions. From my own experience and what I believe, there are no "massive promises" from voting Yes. What there is is a refusal to accept the dreadful status quo and a real belief that we can do things better. Can we do better on child poverty? I believe we can. Can we do better on the rich/ poor divide? I believe we can. Can we do better on austerity? I believe we can. Can we do better on foodbank dependency? I believe we can. And you can extrapolate that out to a lot more issues. I've seen a lot of people saying there aren't enough concrete facts from Yes. That's mainly because we simply can't know exactly what will happen. But I firmly believe that, on our own, we can do a hell of a lot better for this country than the UK have managed for the last 307 years. It's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 The narrow mindedness from the Nationalists is getting rather cringey to be honest. This guff that if you are voting "No" means your either a bigot, a Rangers man, part of BetterTogether or a Tory lover, sums up the overall mentality. What is been proposed by the SNP isn't independence, first and foremost. Moving from one parliament to another makes a mockery of the meaning 'independence'. The UK is so bad that Salmond wants to keep the NATO, the pound and the monarchy!? Ridiculous I'm voting No because I simply don't trust the SNP and there are far too many major issues unanswered. I would love a socialist Scotland but that's not going to happen under the Nationalists quite clearly. There is STILL no answers from the SNP with regards to currency and all we keep hearing is how the oil is going to save us. I'm proud of the fact I have family in North England and I don't want them to suddenly become foreigners with a border between us 150 miles down the road How's it not independence? What do you mean wants to keep NATO that isn't exclusive to the UK? It makes sense to keep the pound for everyone as has been stated a million times. That's a safety net the monarchy with Salmond trying to keep as many people on board as he can, we would still be British after all living on the island of Britain but we would be able to decide ourself afterwards. What major issues? Nobody has stated the oil will 'save us' it's purely a massive bonus we have that resource available to us. There is already a border? your family are already foreign, you are Scottish they are English, you will still be British as you are living on Britain. You are either on the wind up or just an absolute dafty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P45 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 The currency question hasn't been answered. Arrogantly telling another country that they will be entering into a Union with you on currency is just that. An arrogant proclamation that the SNP can in no way deliver You're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal-blue Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 How's it not independence? What do you mean wants to keep NATO that isn't exclusive to the UK? It makes sense to keep the pound for everyone as has been stated a million times. That's a safety net the monarchy with Salmond trying to keep as many people on board as he can, we would still be British after all living on the island of Britain but we would be able to decide ourself afterwards. What major issues? Nobody has stated the oil will 'save us' it's purely a massive bonus we have that resource available to us. There is already a border? your family are already foreign, you are Scottish they are English, you will still be British as you are living on Britain. You are either on the wind up or just an absolute dafty. I struggle to believe that the post you were replying to is representative of the debate at this stage in proceedings. Must be a WUM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 You honestly believe that Scotland will be fairer if it votes for independence?. Nonsense. The people at the top will stay at the top and the people at the bottom will remain at the bottom. There will be no closing of the gap. Its a complete myth. If anything, the gap will widen as taxes for Joe Public will rise and corporation tax will be reduced. A fairer society not really off to a good start is it?.... I have to agree. There is not an alternative government in waiting to implement this fairer society. Labour, the Lib Dems and the Tories won't - the Nats talk a good game but the truth is that their centre-right economics are at odds with their more liberal social policies. It's promises of better services, less regulation, lower taxes and no real explanation of how it will be paid for other than back of the envelope calculations related to the scrapping of Trident. I am also concerned about how the Nats deal with inward investment - the whole Trump affair showed what a spineless kow-towing bunch they are. Also less reported is the nepotistic relationship Salmond has with many of our bankers - can you really see him taking action that would affect their interests? I can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 You're wrong. Well, after that rapier like counter argument, I'm forced to concede you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I have to agree. There is not an alternative government in waiting to implement this fairer society. Labour, the Lib Dems and the Tories won't - the Nats talk a good game but the truth is that their centre-right economics are at odds with their more liberal social policies. It's promises of better services, less regulation, lower taxes and no real explanation of how it will be paid for other than back of the envelope calculations related to the scrapping of Trident. I am also concerned about how the Nats deal with inward investment - the whole Trump affair showed what a spineless kow-towing bunch they are. Also less reported is the nepotistic relationship Salmond has with many of our bankers - can you really see him taking action that would affect their interests? I can't. A lot of the Changggge rhetoric is predicated on the entire political system being ripped up and restarted. There's two problems with this. Firstly it won't. Secondly, even if it did we'd elect a safe centre right party like the SNP. There's a reason why the likes of the Greens and the Socialists are fringe protest votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I have to agree. There is not an alternative government in waiting to implement this fairer society. Labour, the Lib Dems and the Tories won't - the Nats talk a good game but the truth is that their centre-right economics are at odds with their more liberal social policies. It's promises of better services, less regulation, lower taxes and no real explanation of how it will be paid for other than back of the envelope calculations related to the scrapping of Trident. I am also concerned about how the Nats deal with inward investment - the whole Trump affair showed what a spineless kow-towing bunch they are. Also less reported is the nepotistic relationship Salmond has with many of our bankers - can you really see him taking action that would affect their interests? I can't. Independence isn't about the SNP. What's it going to take for people to get that. It's about getting a Government we vote for in a vote we control fully. Whether that be SNP, a revitalised and unshackled Scottish Labour or whoever it is. I've already covered the "no promises" thing, but every study confirms our wealth. We have vast resources, yes we have oil, we also will not have Trident, HS1/2 and the fact that we pay more into the exchequer than we get back. Do you genuinely believe Scotland is too wee and too poor to do this? How come every other country can and we can't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Independence isn't about the SNP. What's it going to take for people to get that. It's about getting a Government we vote for in a vote we control fully. Whether that be SNP, a revitalised and unshackled Scottish Labour or whoever it is. I've already covered the "no promises" thing, but every study confirms our wealth. We have vast resources, yes we have oil, we also will not have Trident, HS1/2 and the fact that we pay more into the exchequer than we get back. Do you genuinely believe Scotland is too wee and too poor to do this? How come every other country can and we can't? So where is this alternative government then? Given how piss-poor Labour are then the only credible post-independence government is going to be an SNP-led one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Independence isn't about the SNP. What's it going to take for people to get that. It's about getting a Government we vote for in a vote we control fully. Whether that be SNP, a revitalised and unshackled Scottish Labour or whoever it is. I've already covered the "no promises" thing, but every study confirms our wealth. We have vast resources, yes we have oil, we also will not have Trident, HS1/2 and the fact that we pay more into the exchequer than we get back. Do you genuinely believe Scotland is too wee and too poor to do this? How come every other country can and we can't? So where is this alternative government then? Given how piss-poor Labour are then the only credible post-independence government is going to be SNP-led. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Independence isn't about the SNP. What's it going to take for people to get that. It's about getting a Government we vote for in a vote we control fully. Whether that be SNP, a revitalised and unshackled Scottish Labour or whoever it is. I've already covered the "no promises" thing, but every study confirms our wealth. We have vast resources, yes we have oil, we also will not have Trident, HS1/2 and the fact that we pay more into the exchequer than we get back. Do you genuinely believe Scotland is too wee and too poor to do this? How come every other country can and we can't? So where is this alternative government then? Given how piss-poor Labour are then the only credible post-independence government is going to be SNP-led. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 So where is this alternative government then? Labour or Tories. Forever and ever and... that's Westminster there. Given how piss-poor Labour are then the only credible post-independence government is going to be SNP-led. That's just stinky pish. SNP have won TWO votes, that's two votes EVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Labour or Tories. Forever and ever and... that's Westminster there. That's just stinky pish. SNP have won TWO votes, that's two votes EVER. You have utterly failed to answer his question. Who us going to deliver this new government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 It's quite amusing isn't it how he screams for answers yet gives none when asked. You'd think he didn't have any answers or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.