So why are people voting NO?

[boabinoban]

So where is this alternative government then?

Given how piss-poor Labour are then the only credible post-independence government is going to be an SNP-led one.

Who says it's going to be an SNP led government? SNP are the main party behind independence. After a Yes vote even Scottish tories will have a voice again and not have to be a tainted organisation.

Basically politics in Scotland will be free of London and will pretty much have a clean slate. I don't think the SNP will be around post independence and Labour will be the biggest party in Scotland.

[thepundit]

Who says it's going to be an SNP led government? SNP are the main party behind independence.

So people will vote for Independence but won't vote for the party that brought independence to set up the infrastructure of country and negotiate with the UK?

That just doesn't seem logical to me. If it's a Yes vote, it's almost guaranteed the Scottish National Party would win the next election.

[bendan]

Effectively ?

Either you are or you aren't.

Well my employer doesn't guarantee me any work, nor any money, so in that respect, yes I am on a zero hours contract. But I have no obligation to work, even if they ask me, beyond a minimal requirement over a three month period, so I'm not really on the kind of zero hours contract that has been under discussion recently.

[HaikuHibee]

So people will vote for Independence but won't vote for the party that brought independence to set up the infrastructure of country and negotiate with the UK?

That just doesn't seem logical to me. If it's a Yes vote, it's almost guaranteed the Scottish National Party would win the next election.

The next election. But look past that election, like five or ten years.

[Confidemus]

So people will vote for Independence but won't vote for the party that brought independence to set up the infrastructure of country and negotiate with the UK?

That just doesn't seem logical to me. If it's a Yes vote, it's almost guaranteed the Scottish National Party would win the next election.

I think this is utter cobblers. The whole political landscape in Scotland will change post Yes. Policital parties will have no choice but to set out mandates that reflect the needs of an iScotland.

It's anyone's for the taking.

[H_B]

Why is it invalid?

Celtic will win the league by 15 points.

I have no idea what your point is supposed to be.

No is a 1/7 shot or thereabouts. Celtic are a 1/100 shot.

[thepundit]

I think this is utter cobblers. The whole political landscape in Scotland will change post Yes. Policital parties will have no choice but to set out mandates that reflect the needs of an iScotland.

It's anyone's for the taking.

I respectfully disagree.

How could voters in an independent Scotland possibly trust Labour or the Conservatives to secure a currency union for example? Not that it will happen, but surely it's daft to vote for party's who all agree it definitely 100% won't happen?

I think it's perfectly wise to assume the winners of the next election in an independent Scotland won't be an anti-independence party.

[H_B]

Yes you do.

You were comparing absolute certainties with strong favourites.

There is no comparison between the likelihood of both outcomes.

Do you think the No vote (1/5ish) has the same chance as Germany tonight (8/11ish)

Again I struggle to see your point here.

The poster questioned why I'd be posting in this forum if I thought No was a certainty.

I'm pointing out that my posting here is nothing to do with Nos chances of winning. I'd be doing so if they were 100 to 1 or 100 to 1 on. Because I like the topic.

Ill ask again, should Celtic fans stop talking about football as they know they will win the SPL?

[boabinoban]

So people will vote for Independence but won't vote for the party that brought independence to set up the infrastructure of country and negotiate with the UK?

That just doesn't seem logical to me. If it's a Yes vote, it's almost guaranteed the Scottish National Party would win the next election.

It's not all about the SNP in the YES campaign. Current Scottish non SNP MPs will have no choice but to either move out of the country to have a job or embrace independence, and I think they would go with the latter. An SNP government is not guaranteed. It's not even guaranteed that the SNP would exist in a Scottish election.

[boabinoban]

I respectfully disagree.

How could voters in an independent Scotland possibly trust Labour or the Conservatives to secure a currency union for example? Not that it will happen, but surely it's daft to vote for party's who all agree it definitely 100% won't happen?

I think it's perfectly wise to assume the winners of the next election in an independent Scotland won't be an anti-independence party.

But you're not getting it. Post independence there will be Scottish Labour, Scottish Conservatives, Sottish Green Party and whoever else. These parties will be new, refreshed and completely free to restructure the political landscape of an independent Scotland. It will be an all inclusive election. How refreshing.

[yoda]

Anyone who doesn't think the political landscape won't change in an independent Scotland shouldn't be taken seriously.

We'll have "independent" Labour, LDs, Tories (i.e., free from being directed by their Westminster parent parties) or some form of equivalent parties. The landscape will shift with no union to protect, that's fairly obvious. Parties will be formed to reflect the needs of an independent Scotland and I believe that this will revitalise party politics in Scotland - we'll hopefully have new parties (or the equivalent of new parties) across the political spectrum, from left to right.

It might not happen immediately - I'm guessing the current parties will continue until at least the end of the first term of the new government - but happen it will.

[thepundit]

But you're not getting it. Post independence there will be Scottish Labour, Scottish Conservatives, Sottish Green Party and whoever else. These parties will be new, refreshed and completely free to restructure the political landscape of an independent Scotland. It will be an all inclusive election. How refreshing.

I understand the point you are making very clearly. I simply think, on the back of independence, those who voted for independence would almost certainly vote for the Scottish National Party whereas Scottish Labour, The Scottish Conservative and the Liberal Democrats would all have to share the No vote.

[Confidemus]

I understand the point you are making very clearly. I simply think, on the back of independence, those who voted for independence would almost certainly vote for the Scottish National Party whereas Scottish Labour, The Scottish Conservative and the Liberal Democrats would all have to share the No vote.

Genuinely?

This is legitimately your train of thought?

[boabinoban]

I understand the point you are making very clearly. I simply think, on the back of independence, those who voted for independence would almost certainly vote for the Scottish National Party whereas Scottish Labour, The Scottish Conservative and the Liberal Democrats would all have to share the No vote.

But they will be more or less completely new political parties. The old parties will not exist. they may well have most of their current membership still there, but in a completely different political landscape and dynamic. The entire Scottish political landscape would have to change and there would be no looking back, only forward.

[boabinoban]

thepundit this is one of the most important parts of the independence campaign, and one of the biggest reasons I'm voting Yes. It's not all about oil or anything like that for me, it's a chance to free ourselves from the shackles of an outdated, draconian, London-centric political set up. A set up which is becoming more and more tarnished by the day. This Elm Guest House scandal could well bring the whole set up crashing down, and I don't want to be part of it when the whole shithouse goes up in flames. Time is right to get the f**k out of there.

[ToonBairn]

A few paragraphs boils down to this.

Pathetic.

Pathetic? Rewind back to all those years ago when they were part of the reasons Thatcher got in power

[ToonBairn]

How's it not independence?

What do you mean wants to keep NATO that isn't exclusive to the UK?

It makes sense to keep the pound for everyone as has been stated a million times.

That's a safety net the monarchy with Salmond trying to keep as many people on board as he can, we would still be British after all living on the island of Britain but we would be able to decide ourself afterwards.

What major issues?

Nobody has stated the oil will 'save us' it's purely a massive bonus we have that resource available to us.

There is already a border? your family are already foreign, you are Scottish they are English, you will still be British as you are living on Britain.

You are either on the wind up or just an absolute dafty.

If the UK is that bad then why does Salmond want to keep so much of it?

Your point about the English been foreign to the Scottish just sums it up for me. Your narrow mindedness view on this is the SNP's politics of complete grudge taking over. We have the exact same in common as people from Newcastle, LIverpool and other places in the North of England. I don't want to be separated from them and even more so, them become foreigners

With regards to a border, a proper one would come into action it this small country seperated. Another thing that the SNP fail to tell you

[thepundit]

Genuinely?

This is legitimately your train of thought?

Note I said "almost certainly".

You're a Green supporter aren't you?.... I'm sure they'll get some of the Yes vote as well. Happy?...

As will Labour and the Conservatives. But my guess would be the Scottish National Party would secure easily 75%+ of Yes voters who also vote in the following election after independence.

[Ira Gaines]

Note I said "almost certainly".

You're a Green supporter aren't you?.... I'm sure they'll get some of the Yes vote as well. Happy?...

As will Labour and the Conservatives. But my guess would be the Scottish National Party would secure easily 75%+ of Yes voters who also vote in the following election after independence.

Your basis for this? I certainly won't be voting for them. That's assuming they're still a party given their place would be a tad redundant when they achieve their only real reason for existing.

[boabinoban]

If the UK is that bad then why does Salmond want to keep so much of it?

Your point about the English been foreign to the Scottish just sums it up for me. Your narrow mindedness view on this is the SNP's politics of complete grudge taking over. We have the exact same in common as people from Newcastle, LIverpool and other places in the North of England. I don't want to be separated from them and even more so, them become foreigners

With regards to a border, a proper one would come into action it this small country seperated. Another thing that the SNP fail to tell you

1. Because these things are as much Sotland's as anywhere else's. The bank of England is such in name alone.

2. Newcastle, Liverpool and the rest are part of England. Scotland is a different country. Did you not know this? We are currently part of a union of nations. A union which a lot of Scots are not satisfied with.

3. What a load of total fucking balls. Total and utter shite. Show me examples of where this has taken place.