So why are people voting NO?

[boabinoban]

With so much uncertainty, just how "informed" is a vote for Yes? (If I'm correct in assuming you think more No's are voting blindly than Yes).

There are plenty of people voting No because they are so used to voting for the usual suspects. I found a few of these in my work the other day. None of them have done any research and are just voting blindly. I think all of the people I know that are Yes voters have done a fair bit of research. A majority of Nos that I have come across are doing so with no real argument. That includes most of the ones on here.

[Ad Lib]

They haven't indicated an open door policy. Their immigration policy is pretty conservative if you ask me.

Relative to what you or I might want it to be, sure. Relative to the UK immigration policy, yes it is more open door.

And what if the Irish vote for a party with different policies to which they have now? Will a fence be erected between ROI and the UK?

Potentially border-checks could be reinstated. The UK toyed with reintroducing systematic checks on air and sea travel from the Republic in 2008, which could have meant the need for a passport to travel to and from the mainland. It would be far from popular but it's not unforeseeable that systematic checks could be imposed on the land-border too, or at least on NI sea and air travel to the mainland.

[Confidemus]

Relative to what you or I might want it to be, sure. Relative to the UK immigration policy, yes it is more open door.

Potentially border-checks could be reinstated. The UK toyed with reintroducing systematic checks on air and sea travel from the Republic in 2008, which could have meant the need for a passport to travel to and from the mainland. It would be far from popular but it's not unforeseeable that systematic checks could be imposed on the land-border too, or at least on NI sea and air travel to the mainland.

*sigh*

the answer you're looking for is "ROI and UK do not have identical immigration policies and there is no border. It would be ludicrous to suggest there would be border controls between Scotland and an rUK".

Now copy that, paste it and hush your mouth.

Anything else is needless fluff.

[Blaven]

Relative to what you or I might want it to be, sure. Relative to the UK immigration policy, yes it is more open door.

Potentially border-checks could be reinstated. The UK toyed with reintroducing systematic checks on air and sea travel from the Republic in 2008, which could have meant the need for a passport to travel to and from the mainland. It would be far from popular but it's not unforeseeable that systematic checks could be imposed on the land-border too, or at least on NI sea and air travel to the mainland.

Funny that the Uk has no border checks with NI or ROI. Two nations that have known killing terror groups.

Yet they will fling up a border with Scotland who have NO killing terror groups.

That sounds very logical.

[ayrmad]

Funny that the Uk has no border checks with NI or ROI. Two nations that have known killing terror groups.

Yet they will fling up a border with Scotland who have NO killing terror groups.

That sounds very logical.

I have no time for any person with brains peddling this shite about borders, it's understandable why the thick people or those that choose to get all their info from the MSM would think this way, those in the know peddling it are nothing more than conmen in my eyes.

[Blaven]

I have no time for any person with brains peddling this shite about borders, it's understandable why the thick people or those that choose to get all their info from the MSM would think this way, those in the know peddling it are nothing more than conmen in my eyes.

Quite right too. The only reason they would put up a border, would be out of spite.

[bendan]

Why wouldn't there be a border if Scotland and England have different immigration policies?

Speaking of immigration, more than 50% of Scots was less immigration and the Yes campaigns economic argument is based on more immigration. That has no doubt cost them supporters.

Of course, the argument falls to bits anyway when there's been nothing mentioned in regards to increasing public services, housing etc. It's completely unsustainable.

Many of the Schengen countries have different immigration policies. They have a standard policy for visits (in theory, not in practice) but for settlement there are big differences.

I very much doubt an independent Scotland would be very different from rUK an Eire on visits, but it could be completely different on, say, whether non-EU graduates from our universities could stay to work. These people would stil not have the right to work in rUK until they got Scottish citizenship and became EU citizens (just like how people can become Greek, Italian or Portuguese and then move to the UK now). As long as the basic checks on entry are broadly similar there can be wide differences in what happens next.

The greatest irony here is that the No side says Scotland's poor demographic situation is somehow a reason to stay in the Union. We had around 20% of the combined population when we joined the Union, now it is just over 8%. Scotland's population has grown around 25% over the last 100 years, yet Norway's has grown by 200% in the same period. Keeping entirely inappropriate immigration laws will just leave Scotland old and poor.

[boabinoban]

Quite right too. The only reason they would put up a border, would be out of spite.

It's the biggest toys oot the pram exercise in what has been a truly negative, nasty and vindictive campaign.

[ToonBairn]

ToonBairn definitely strikes me as someone who believes every single word the No side says.

That's where the narrow mindedness kicks in. I'm a real labour man and always will be. However only your type will think otherwise. I don't want an independent Scotland where the Nationalists are calling the shots. "Tartan Tories" is a bit harsh but it's not far off

[boabinoban]

Tartan Tories? Are you aff yer nut? Since when has Scotland been a conservative country? SNP are in this to deliver independence. After that there will be a free, fully democratic election.

"I'm a real labour man and always will be"

What does that actually mean? Are you an old school Labour man or a Blairite? Surely a real labour man wouldn't want anything to do with the way 'New Labour' are going? They're as bad as the tories and that's one of the main reasons I'm voting for independence.

If you're happy with getting run by a city that's at the other end of the country, that is pretty oblivious to the whole independence campaign, then wire in.

I'm not in this for Alex Salmond, the SNP or any other party or faction. I'm in this for the future of Scotland where we can decide for ourselves instead of being decided by people who don't understand what's going on here and pretty obviously don't care. You're selling your country down the Thames and voting for a stale, debauched, and rotten to the core hierarchy.

[ToonBairn]

^^

Monkey found.

Utterly embarrassing for everyone except him

Only embarrassing for people who are anti-English. The "yes" voters should do their history on what happened in 1979

[ayrmad]

Only embarrassing for people who are anti-English. The "yes" voters should do their history on what happened in 1979

I think you'll find that we know what happened in 1979, we're voting YES due to what happened in 1980,1981,1982,1983,1984,1985,1986,1987,1988,1989,1990,2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,2007,2008,2009,2010,2011,2012,2013 and 2014 and what will probably happen every year from now on.

[Enigma]

Many of the Schengen countries have different immigration policies. They have a standard policy for visits (in theory, not in practice) but for settlement there are big differences.

I very much doubt an independent Scotland would be very different from rUK an Eire on visits, but it could be completely different on, say, whether non-EU graduates from our universities could stay to work. These people would stil not have the right to work in rUK until they got Scottish citizenship and became EU citizens (just like how people can become Greek, Italian or Portuguese and then move to the UK now). As long as the basic checks on entry are broadly similar there can be wide differences in what happens next.

The greatest irony here is that the No side says Scotland's poor demographic situation is somehow a reason to stay in the Union. We had around 20% of the combined population when we joined the Union, now it is just over 8%. Scotland's population has grown around 25% over the last 100 years, yet Norway's has grown by 200% in the same period. Keeping entirely inappropriate immigration laws will just leave Scotland old and poor.

Well said. The opportunity to forge a different immigration policy as an independent state is something which I haven't heard a counter argument to, unless you hate Johnny Foreigner coming over here, taking our jobs etc. I just don't see how Scotland's population is best served by the immigration policies pursued by the UK government.

[thepundit]

Well said. The opportunity to forge a different immigration policy as an independent state is something which I haven't heard a counter argument to.

Immigration is a good thing, of that there is no doubt.

Mass, uncontrolled immigration is not. It's a strain on public services, there's not enough housing and it floods the unskilled market. For Salmond's economic plan to work, immigration needs to be increased. How will Scotland limit unskilled immigration whilst increasing immigration at the same time? Or is it just a case of "Come on in!"?. With more than half the population already concerned about immigration, I don't think an increase will be too popular with voters.

Had the plan been to form a strict policy, which would have been possible whilst Scotland was out of the European Union, then it may have got some voters on side.

[ayrmad]

Immigration is a good thing, of that there is no doubt.

Mass, uncontrolled immigration is not. It's a strain on public services, there's not enough housing and it floods the unskilled market. For Salmond's economic plan to work, immigration needs to be increased. How will Scotland limit unskilled immigration whilst increasing immigration at the same time? Or is it just a case of "Come on in!"?. With more than half the population already concerned about immigration, I don't think an increase will be too popular with voters.

Had the plan been to form a strict policy, which would have been possible whilst Scotland was out of the European Union, then it may have got some voters on side.

We actually don't need to increase the numbers of immigrants as much as some are making out, we need to hold onto more of our own people first and foremost.

[thepundit]

We actually don't need to increase the numbers of immigrants as much as some are making out, we need to hold onto more of our own people first and foremost.

And how would an independent Scotland do that?

[Blaven]

We actually don't need to increase the numbers of immigrants as much as some are making out, we need to hold onto more of our own people first and foremost.

And to give graduates the right to stay and work, would help too.

[ayrmad]

And how would an independent Scotland do that?

More attractive jobs on more attractive money and conditions, it's not something that can happen overnight.

[Blaven]

And how would an independent Scotland do that?

Have you only just taken your fingers out your ears?

[Ira Gaines]

That's where the narrow mindedness kicks in. I'm a real labour man and always will be. However only your type will think otherwise. I don't want an independent Scotland where the Nationalists are calling the shots. "Tartan Tories" is a bit harsh but it's not far off

You take the stuff that No says and spout it on here as if it's some sort of undisputable fact. And you have the audacity to call me narrow minded.