All things Dundee FC

[RawB93]

It’s weird. I don’t think I’ve come away from a game thinking we’ve looked hopeless. Yet here we are, bottom of the league.
Think this game might be make or break for a lot of people re: McCann. Here’s hoping we pull through.

[Fifespud]

f**k me Hartley had 3 years to build a team and we were utter shite when he was punted. McCann has had 3 (playing) months and boys are wanting him punted. And Scott Allan was by miles the best player on the park last night. I realise we scored after he went off but sometimes Barca score without Messi on the park.

[Ludo*1]

f**k me Hartley had 3 years to build a team and we were utter shite when he was punted. McCann has had 3 (playing) months and boys are wanting him punted. And Scott Allan was by miles the best player on the park last night. I realise we scored after he went off but sometimes Barca score without Messi on the park.

Hartley got us promoted from a division we hadn't won in 10 attempts in his first 6 months. And in his first 18 months (Including breaks) had us in the top 6 in the top flight before missing it on the final day the season after that.

McCann has shown nothing like being afforded the time Hartley was in his final season other than the football is a bit easier on the eye.

[RawB93]

So they’ve both achieved what was set out for them in their first season in charge then? Great. Let’s see how this season actually goes.
3 months ffs

[Fifespud]

Hartley got us promoted from a division we hadn't won in 10 attempts in his first 6 months. And in his first 18 months (Including breaks) had us in the top 6 in the top flight before missing it on the final day the season after that.

McCann has shown nothing like being afforded the time Hartley was in his final season other than the football is a bit easier on the eye.

Let’s not forget it was a pish league and we were joint top in February when he was appointed. Conversely when McCann took over from Hartley we were in free fall, looked like relegation certainties and had a squad of utter dog meat most of whom were on long term contracts given by Hartley. I’d go as far as to say we’d be in the championship right now if he hadn’t been punted.

The biggest issue we have is the lack of a goal scorer and NM is still stuck with 2 duffers signed by Hartley and another striker fucked by an ACL injury.

[RawB93]

On the bright side - Wighton’s been hitting the weights while he’s out and looks #hench. He’s also had the company of Meekings and McPake so hopefully he comes back focused and more determined than ever.

[RossDee01]

 Hartley got us promoted from a division we hadn't won in 10 attempts in his first 6 months. And in his first 18 months (Including breaks) had us in the top 6 in the top flight before missing it on the final day the season after that.  McCann has shown nothing like being afforded the time Hartley was in his final season other than the football is a bit easier on the eye.

 

 

 

We finished top 6 in a league that didn't include Hearts, Hibs or Rangers. We also proceeded to get pumped in all 5 games after the split. We then absolutely shat the bed against Hamilton away the next season. The same season where we got pumped 4-0 one game away from Hampden by a championship side. 

The next season he set a record for the most league defeats in a season, subsequently breaking that record in the same season. All of this in amongst a 7-0 home pumping to Aberdeen involving an Andy Considine hat-trick.

 

Almost laughable that people think we were in a better place under Paul Hartley.

 

Not intended to be a dig at you Ludo, just think it's only fair that people give McCann more time.

 

 

[Shadow Play]

12 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

 

Let’s not forget it was a pish league and we were joint top in February when he was appointed. Conversely when McCann took over from Hartley we were in free fall, looked like relegation certainties and had a squad of utter dog meat most of whom were on long term contracts given by Hartley. I’d go as far as to say we’d be in the championship right now if he hadn’t been punted.

The biggest issue we have is the lack of a goal scorer and NM is still stuck with 2 duffers signed by Hartley and another striker fucked by an ACL injury.

 

Totally agree we would have been relegated if Hartley had remained as the team had simply stopped believing in him.  He said himself after the Hamilton game he had tried everything and didn’t have any new ideas to offer.

Unfortunately, lose to Kilmarnock and of the 4 teams above us we will have played them 6 times, taking one point out of a possible eighteen.

If we find ourselves in that position should we keep faith in a manager who has stated he will not change his philosophy?  A philosophy that shows no sign of being successful against battling teams.

I personally think when you are down at the bottom you have to do what’s needed to get the points.  Never mind attractive football.

Cathro was adamant that he could bring a certain style of football to the Scottish game.  I’m not sure you can, unless you have top, top players to carry it out.

 

[RossDee01]

Cathro was adamant that he could bring a certain style of football to the Scottish game.  I’m not sure you can, unless you have top, top players to carry it out.
 

If that's true then that's an utterly depressing thought. I suppose that's what happens though when you have managers like John Hughes, Jim McIntyre, Martin Canning and the likes kicking around the game.

[Shadow Play]

4 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

 

If that's true then that's an utterly depressing thought. I suppose that's what happens though when you have managers like John Hughes, Jim McIntyre, Martin Canning and the likes kicking around the game.

 

You’re not wrong there RossDee but I’d rather Dundee were the most boring side to watch in the Premiership than the most exciting team in the Championship.

[ravabelli]

39 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

 

Let’s not forget it was a pish league and we were joint top in February when he was appointed. Conversely when McCann took over from Hartley we were in free fall, looked like relegation certainties and had a squad of utter dog meat most of whom were on long term contracts given by Hartley. I’d go as far as to say we’d be in the championship right now if he hadn’t been punted.

The biggest issue we have is the lack of a goal scorer and NM is still stuck with 2 duffers signed by Hartley and another striker fucked by an ACL injury.

 

Every decent team is built on solid foundations, we're leaking goals for fun and not only against the top teams in the league, every team will be confident of scoring against us and are! A goal scorer would be great but even Messi and Ronaldo would be pissing in the wind if we continue to lose sloppy goals 

[Fifespud]

Every decent team is built on solid foundations, we're leaking goals for fun and not only against the top teams in the league, every team will be confident of scoring against us and are! A goal scorer would be great but even Messi and Ronaldo would be pissing in the wind if we continue to lose sloppy goals 

Agreed but in 3 years Hartley didn’t sign one decent centre half. All bomb scares the lot of them. However the biggest problem is the strike force. We’ve missed dozens and dozens of chances. Puts the defence under some pressure when your strikers can’t hit a cows arse with a banjo.

[Ludo*1]

I also believe that this 'good football' thing is a bit of a myth, perpetuated by McCann in the media. Absolutely, we've had a good few performances that have been very, very good without getting what we deserve, but equally we've had some rancid performances that were up there with last season.

Raith Rovers, Buckie Thistle, first Derby, Ross County at home, Hibs at home, Rangers away, Celtic at home, Motherwell and Hamilton, both at home, were all either extremely average or piss poor performances. And that's not including games where we 'played well' but still managed to take 3 from Hamilton and get beat by a Partick Thistle side that hadn't won in their previous 15 attempts.

4 managers have been sacked this season due to poor performance, we've played against 3 of those sides with the now punted manager in charge - They've gained 7 points from us in those 3 games.

I'm not normally a complete whinger, but I'm honestly not seeing it the way a good few are. I feel we are doomed if we get beat by Kilmarnock and McCann stays on.

I desperately hope he shuts my puss, but I've seen nothing thus far other than he's a good Dee.

 

ETA: I know, normally I'm the polar opposite sometimes defending the indefensible with previous manager's but that's because they've given me something to buy into.

 

[RandomGuy.]

Hartley 2016/17 - 33 games - 28 points - PPG: 0.85 (expected total points: 32) - expected position = 12th

McCann 2017/18 - 13 games - 8 points - PPG: 0.6 (expected total points: 23) / McCann total - 18 games - 15 points - PPG: 0.83 (expected total points: 32)

 

Found this interesting..

Edited November 8, 2017 by RandomGuy.

[cilitbang]

So basically..

you lot will lose the plot if you lose for obvious reasons

you lot will lose the plot if you draw as it doesn't really help and just prolongs the McCann funsies

you lot will lose the plot if you win cause it shows the players hadn't been trying/ *insert cliche*

[RossDee01]

So basically..
you lot will lose the plot if you lose for obvious reasons
you lot will lose the plot if you draw as it doesn't really help and just prolongs the McCann funsies
you lot will lose the plot if you win cause it shows the players hadn't been trying/ *insert cliche*

Why would we lose the plot if we won? I don't think anyone has said the players haven't been trying. In fact, it would be almost ludicrous to suggest that as more often than not, especially at the start of the season, we were creating numerous chances and just not putting them away.

I don't think anyone would suggest that a lack of effort is the problem.

[Ludo*1]

Why would we lose the plot if we won? I don't think anyone has said the players haven't been trying. In fact, it would be almost ludicrous to suggest that as more often than not, especially at the start of the season, we were creating numerous chances and just not putting them away.

I don't think anyone would suggest that a lack of effort is the problem.

I'm with you on this one - without going on another laborious rant - the only game where I could question the players effort would be in the cup game against Celtic, where they undoubtedly downed tools after going 1 down.

Other than that though, lack of effort hasn't been something I could slate our team for this season tbf.

[RawB93]

Hopefully not tbh

[Pinko]

Can't see why you wouldn't want to see McPake again? He done a good job for us when fit and also gave us some memorable moments!

[happyaccie]

11 hours ago, RossDee01 said:

Why would we lose the plot if we won? I don't think anyone has said the players haven't been trying. In fact, it would be almost ludicrous to suggest that as more often than not, especially at the start of the season, we were creating numerous chances and just not putting them away.

I don't think anyone would suggest that a lack of effort is the problem.

Serious question Ross, if the application of the players is acceptable,and with your continued defence of McCann which  I understand btw, what has gone wrong, is it the player's inability to carry out McCanns instructions,McCanns tinker-man approach or can your season be defined by your injuries, most Dee fans are of the opinion this seasons squad is as strong as you have had in a considerable time,it's quite hard therefore to grasp why the teams struggling as bad as appears.

11 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

 

I'm with you on this one - without going on another laborious rant - the only game where I could question the players effort would be in the cup game against Celtic, where they undoubtedly downed tools after going 1 down.

Other than that though, lack of effort hasn't been something I could slate our team for this season tbf.

 

Same for you ludo , I can't quite suss out whether your anti or pro McCann , firstly what do you think is the main reason for the teams struggles, secondly how can in your opinion this struggle for consistency be reversed ?