The Silent Have Spoken

[port-ton]

There will have been just as many ill informed yes voters who voted without researching as there would have been no voters.

The no campaign was pathetic and still won comfortably, and the yes campaign from yes voters was agressive and in your face and probably put more people off voting than it did in their favour.

The highlight of the yes campaign for me was seeing thousands of people gathering together around the country and showing a togetherness that was awesome to watch.

The lowlights have been the bandwagon jumpers that confidimus insists doesnt exist who treated it like it was the ice bucket challenge or the no make up selfie as if it was a social media badge of honour and thats all, and also the response this morning of the yes voters who only believe in democracy if it goes their way, and the endless excuses for the fact that someone just might not believe in the same ideals as they do.

[Banterous]

There will have been just as many ill informed yes voters who voted without researching as there would have been no voters.

The no campaign was pathetic and still won comfortably, and the yes campaign from yes voters was agressive and in your face and probably put more people off voting than it did in their favour.

The highlight of the yes campaign for me was seeing thousands of people gathering together around the country and showing a togetherness that was awesome to watch.

The lowlights have been the bandwagon jumpers that confidimus insists doesnt exist who treated it like it was the ice bucket challenge or the no make up selfie as if it was a social media badge of honour and thats all, and also the response this morning of the yes voters who only believe in democracy if it goes their way, and the endless excuses for the fact that someone just might not believe in the same ideals as they do.

^^

This. Owe you a green one

[H_B]

There will have been just as many ill informed yes voters who voted without researching as there would have been no voters.

The no campaign was pathetic and still won comfortably, and the yes campaign from yes voters was agressive and in your face and probably put more people off voting than it did in their favour.

The highlight of the yes campaign for me was seeing thousands of people gathering together around the country and showing a togetherness that was awesome to watch.

The lowlights have been the bandwagon jumpers that confidimus insists doesnt exist who treated it like it was the ice bucket challenge or the no make up selfie as if it was a social media badge of honour and thats all, and also the response this morning of the yes voters who only believe in democracy if it goes their way, and the endless excuses for the fact that someone just might not believe in the same ideals as they do.

Really good post.

The endless "we are going to win... polls are shite... I saw 4 car stickers on my way to work today and encouraged 3 people to like the Yes Facebook page" drivel was really tiresome too.

Of course plenty of those responsible for that are nowhere to be seen today, and will quietly hope to forget all about that.

[QPSAFalkirkFirm]

That is an incredible turnaround in a relatively short time.

Unfortunately, and understandably, people tend to look in the short term.

In the history of the world, you're right. In a man's lifetime it's a big chunk.

[chomp my root]

I didn't say I didn't accept that others see things differently.

I did say it was my opinion and that is largely how I've found Yes and No voters to be.

I'm not the posterboy of anything, just going on experience.

You claimed that YES voters were somehow a different breed to NO voters implying a 'bloc' trait and then used yourself as the example. You see where I'm coming from ?

[Redvine]

Redvine, that is just the kind of comment that harmed the Yes case, to suggest as you seem to be that by voting No I somehow don't care about child poverty is stupid

Most people aren't willing to fight to end it though. The immediate sniff of any sort of difficulty or hardship for themselves and they go the other way. People have voted for the system that suits them personally, not one that will benefit all (in my opinion!)

[Alert Mongoose]

I've posted this before but ideally I'd have liked all the parties to have published a post indy manifesto but I can see why the NAW's would see that as political folly. I do think the SNP should have made their intentions more public and not just "we want to make things better". The lack of 'facts' (I'm starting to really dislike that word) on both sides leads to people going with their 'gut' and then finding the 'facts' to suit their argument. A lot of people will play safe in a situation like this and I suspect it will have come down to how much of a 'gambler' you are as an individual and this will be affected by a huge number of factors.

Probably an element of truth in this. I think the 'Yes' campaign maybe got a bit drunk on the faint praise of offering up a 'positive' alternative to the 'No' version and perhaps painted the future too brightly. Some may have actually been put off by this.

[Skyline Drifter]

Fair enough - I did say 'perhaps' rather than dismissing your thoughts beyond monetary aspects but point taken. Do you believe that Governance whether the income side is one line which you have little or no control over is a pretty flimsy version of it?

Yes, but when I said we already have a national Government I wasn't referring to the Scottish Parliament. I was referring to Westminster. I'm already on record as saying I didn't want the Scottish parliament when it came into being and whilst I probably wouldn't actively close it now if it was down to me, it wouldn't bother me if it was either.

[Happy Buddie]

Let's take a wee step back and look at what we've got.

No won. No doubts about that and many of their supporters will be happy about that.

Fair enough.

However.

At 55% the result may be conclusive but it's hardly an overwhelming statement.

They really only scraped through.

Just under half the country is feeling like shit this morning and will do so for some considerable time.

The Lex's of this world winding them up won't help. It'll provoke more anger than there already is.

The 2 million who voted No are not all happy clapper Brits.

By all accounts the vast majority of them voted No because they were afraid of the consequences of voting Yes.

So, that'll explain the lack of street parties and general happiness this morning.

Half the country thinks the other half of the country are effectively traitors and cowards.

Many of the other half are living with part relief, part shame, part guilt and part concern that they'll be outed.

This is not a happy country right now outside of a handful of genuinely passionate pro-Brits.

That is in itself a concern but the problems don't stop there.

England is livid. Absolutely livid that we'd even consider "rejecting them" and now want their pound of flesh.

Wales and NI are not exactly feeling warm towards Scotland either.

So for anyone to be feeling smug this morning is just blatantly bloody stupid.

Independence may be over for perhaps 25 years or whatever but the union is totally fucked.

Make no mistake about that.

It has only just been sellotaped together by fear and that's always a crappy unsatisfactory outcome.

The only thing which can prevent the total breakup of the union will be a federal UK. It beggars belief this wasn't sorted out years ago but that's where we are now heading.

So if you're a passionate Brit, then enjoy your moment because the union you thought you were voting to protect is irreparably damaged.

All IMO of course

No doubt that "The Vow", and we'll wait to see how that develops, made a big difference to the scale of the result, as did Broon's impassioned speech, but I don't think the actual result was ever going to be a Yes, given the fearmongering that went on from the financial institutions, big business, etc, without Eck having a solid enough response on the economy. See this article writen by Matthew Parris in the Spectator

Wiser heads in the Better Together campaign have always allowed that Scotland could manage perfectly well as an independent country. Perhaps the rest of Union should remind ourselves that we could too. Instead, behaving as though we all faced doom, leading politicians in the three main Westminster parties — intent more on saving their own skins than in leaving Scotland to decide — began to panic when it seemed possible Scots might give the wrong answer. Dignity was cast aside, and many hostages to fortune offered, in a scramble to talk Scots out of their possible decision to leave.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/matthew-parris/9315472/yes-or-no-ill-never-feel-the-same-about-the-scots/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=yes-or-no-ill-never-feel-the-same-about-the-scots

All the opinion polls, bar one, suggested a No vote, but great strides were made towards a significant Yes vote during the campaign from a very low initial level. This is not the end, just the end of the beginning.

I think next year's GE vote will be very interesting, with a lot of until-now-Labour voters who voted Yes having seen their true light-blue colours deserting them in disgust.

[chomp my root]

Most people aren't willing to fight to end it though. The immediate sniff of any sort of difficulty or hardship for themselves and they go the other way. People have voted for the system that suits them personally, not one that will benefit all (in my opinion!)

I'm sure your OBE is in the post mate.

[paranoid android]

We got beat. We move on.

I have. Big time.

[Skyline Drifter]

There will have been just as many ill informed yes voters who voted without researching as there would have been no voters.

The no campaign was pathetic and still won comfortably, and the yes campaign from yes voters was agressive and in your face and probably put more people off voting than it did in their favour.

The highlight of the yes campaign for me was seeing thousands of people gathering together around the country and showing a togetherness that was awesome to watch.

The lowlights have been the bandwagon jumpers that confidimus insists doesnt exist who treated it like it was the ice bucket challenge or the no make up selfie as if it was a social media badge of honour and thats all, and also the response this morning of the yes voters who only believe in democracy if it goes their way, and the endless excuses for the fact that someone just might not believe in the same ideals as they do.

This is probably the best post in the entire sub-forum, never mind this thread. If I could give it more than one green dot I would.

[Alert Mongoose]

Yes, but when I said we already have a national Government I wasn't referring to the Scottish Parliament. I was referring to Westminster. I'm already on record as saying I didn't want the Scottish parliament when it came into being and whilst I probably wouldn't actively close it now if it was down to me, it wouldn't bother me if it was either.

Ok - I guess we markedly disagree then!

[mid-table]

In the history of the world, you're right. In a man's lifetime it's a big chunk.

Don't disagree with that.

But looking at the trend over the last 50 years, there has been a steady movement from nothing to where we are today.

To go from first nationalist majority in the Scottish parliament (who got 44.04% of the popular vote) to full independence in 3 years would be an exponentially higher rate of movement towards independence than the rest of the progression that the average 50 year old has seen in their lifetime.

[Skyline Drifter]

What you are describing is actually worse than being driven by fear.

You are describing 2 million Scots as simply not believing we are capable of looking after our own affairs.

I think that's worse than fear.

No, I'm not, and this is where you just can't get your head round it.

It's not that "we" (the Scots by your definition) are not capable of doing so, it's that we've (in my opinion) no need to do so. The way you go on we're like some sort of oppressed minority who have been given a chance to break free from our slave owning overlords. I expect many genuinely think that way unfortunately. I don't. I'm happy being part of the UK and want to remain so.

[RawB93]

to the yes voters who used threats,abuse and intimidation against the no voters get it up ya you clowns the silent majority has spoken.

What about the government who have used threats and intimidation through mainstream media to gain a no vote? What about that? Is that ok?

[Independent_hero]

Evidence that shows that this vote is a fraud http://vk.com/video-64994882_170320649?list=a3ae8fd7568b3c5703

[H_B]

I expect many genuinely think that way unfortunately.

This has been the narrative of this board.

Reinforced by comlpetely invented scare stories about what a No vote will bring. Slaughter of firstborn etc.

[Alert Mongoose]

No, I'm not, and this is where you just can't get your head round it.

It's not that "we" (the Scots by your definition) are not capable of doing so, it's that we've (in my opinion) no need to do so. The way you go on we're like some sort of oppressed minority who have been given a chance to break free from our slave owning overlords. I expect many genuinely think that way unfortunately. I don't. I'm happy being part of the UK and want to remain so.

Are you happy with the direction of travel in the UK Government?

[Skyline Drifter]

Ok - I guess we markedly disagree then!

Indeed. That's fine. It's democracy in action.

You wanted independence, you didn't get it because the overall will of the electorate was they didn't want it. I would rather we didn't waste all the money we did setting up the Scottish Parliament and paying needless bureaucrats to sit in it and run it but we got it anyway because the overall will of the electorate was that they do want that.

So we take the position we have and we move on.