Was it the manner of the defeat?

[LongTimeLurker]

It shouldn't have. That was always going to be the case even if Yes had won overall.

What shocked me (one part in four Shetlander ancestrally and have spent quite a bit of time there) was that Shetland is now pretty much in line with other rural areas on independence and is no longer an outlier not just on devolution but also full blown independence, so should probably be viewed now as just another part of Scotland in electoral terms. Hopefully that will kill stone dead all the nonsense about forming a separate kingdom that only ever seems to rear its head as an issue when the media in London are looking for an angle of attack where the SNP are concerned. Doubt it though.

Alex Salmond's strategy over the last couple of decades was that if he could get Roman Catholics in the west central belt on board in a manner they weren't in the 70s and 80s when devolution was still viewed in Stormont terms and combined it with strong support in traditional strongholds in the rural north east, Western Isles, Clackmannanshire etc the numbers would be there for a Yes. The former part came through for him by the looks of things, but the latter did not. SNP heartland areas from the 70s and 80s like Stornoway, Alva and Menstrie in Clackmannanshire, Bo'ness and certain other parts of West Lothian, Forfar, Brechin, Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead appear to have probably voted No or at most only a very narrow Yes.

[sjc]

I am devastated by the result, but I'm not devastated by the "manner" of the defeat at all. .

We have gone from a core theoretical support for independence of 30-35%, to an actual vote of 45%. That is an enormous stride forward.

The real question is how many people were persuaded by the "vow", and what happens if it isn't followed through. As a nationalist who was also a gradualist, more powers should now be forthcoming which wouldn't otherwise have been the case. Although not on the table yet, Devo Max is the next step, and it is great to hear proper federalism being discussed.

We are living in a country which is more politically engaged and politically aware than ever before. Let's not let that go.

100% concur.

[sjc]

Correct in a way. Some No voters thought of themselves and themselves only.

Im from Dumfries, live in Glasgow and on a high income. Voted Yes in the hope it would change the lives of others, and proud of that.

Fair play and each to their own but for me that was either incredibly brave or incredibly naive.........but given the lack of forthright answers on currency etc I'd lean towards the latter.

[dorlomin]

Ok, this is necessarily a massive generalisation but folk in poorer urban areas with no job or lousy jobs on minimum wage, living in cramped rented accommodation had nothing to lose. They would also be generally of a younger demographic and less risk averse.

Eh? The people you are describing had the most to lose! An increase in basic food prices would have hammered them far far worse than someone in leafy suburbia. The core Yes vote was also the 25-45, so likely people with jobs and hoping to own a house\ recent mortgage.

[Tom McB]

What shocked me was the depth of rejection from Orkney and Shetland, am I being paranoid in thinking that's because there are a lot of "foreign" accents up there due to high South-Eastern England property prices? Obviously the Dumfries and Borders results are due to their proximity to England and, I also suspect, farming communities being addicted to the current subsidy culture. If you were to lay late70s - late 80s general election voting patterns over last night's vote I think there would be a strong correlation, i.e. those who used to vote Conservative and Liberal decided to maintain the Union.

Orkney and Shetland? You plainly never been there, most native Orcadians and Shetlanders have always regarded themselves as Orcadians or Shetlanders first.

You've also missed that many SNP voting areas have rejected seperation.

[Newbornbairn]

Eh? The people you are describing had the most to lose! An increase in basic food prices would have hammered them far far worse than someone in leafy suburbia. The core Yes vote was also the 25-45, so likely people with jobs and hoping to own a house\ recent mortgage.

I hear what you're saying, but support for independence has always been strongest in the 18-24 age group. These people are more likely to be early in their career path, in low paid jobs, unemployed or students.

ETA - http://www.natcen.ac.uk/media/176046/2012-who-supports-and-opposes-independence-and-why.pdf

[Tom McB]

The chance of the UK leaving the EU is fantastically small.

Any referendum (which wont happen anyway) would be even more one-sided than this one.

Spot on.

[Houghmagandy]

yes owned like it obviously wud be #yescowards

[dorlomin]

I hear what you're saying, but support for independence has always been strongest in the 18-24 age group. These people are more likely to be early in their career path, in low paid jobs, unemployed or students.

ETA - http://www.natcen.ac.uk/media/176046/2012-who-supports-and-opposes-independence-and-why.pdf

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/207931-latest-polls-and-latest-odds/?p=8794976

Ashcrofts exit poll (and broadly consistent with the late pre election polls ) had the 18-24 voting against independence. They were the only under 55 tranche to do so. The under 18s were surprise late breakers for Yes.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

That is the one position we cannot adopt now. If we do the NO voters have not only won the battle they will also have won the war. Sorry for the cliche but I think it is the most eloquent way i can express it.

This.

Absolutely important that those who want real Devo max powers work together.

[paranoid android]

That is the one position we cannot adopt now. If we do the NO voters have not only won the battle they will also have won the war. Sorry for the cliche but I think it is the most eloquent way i can express it.

Ken what you're saying, Gran, but here's how I'm seeing it at the moment with a glass half empty. (another cliché)

If I vote Labour, I get a Tory government.

If I vote SNP, I get a Tory government.

if I vote Lib/Dem, I get a Tory government.

If I vote UKIP, I get a Tory government.

if I vote Green, I get a Tory government.

If I vote SSP, I get a Tory government.

if I vote Tory, I get a Tory government.

[KR88]

Eh? The people you are describing had the most to lose! An increase in basic food prices would have hammered them far far worse than someone in leafy suburbia. The core Yes vote was also the 25-45, so likely people with jobs and hoping to own a house\ recent mortgage.

To be fair, the guy has a point.. All the areas confirmed as yes were the poorer areas of the country

[paranoid android]

It kind of also was the manner of the defeat - it was like one of those games when you've been hammered for 90 minutes, and lost 1-0.

At no point last night did it ever look like a win for Yes - from the announcement of you YouGuv poll about half-ten/eleven it seemed inevitable that it would be a win for no.

In this respect, the electoral coverage is kind of spoiling the election as an event, not that that really matters, of course.

[G-MAN]

Ken what you're saying, Gran, but here's how I'm seeing it at the moment with a glass half empty. (another cliché)

If I vote Labour, I get a Tory government.

If I vote SNP, I get a Tory government.

if I vote Lib/Dem, I get a Tory government.

If I vote UKIP, I get a Tory government.

if I vote Green, I get a Tory government.

If I vote SSP, I get a Tory government.

if I vote Tory, I get a Tory government.

Put UKIP next to Tory and you have it correct.

[dorlomin]

To be fair, the guy has a point.. All the areas confirmed as yes were the poorer areas of the country

'Poorer' does not mean jobless. 'Poorer' does not mean could not give a f**k about the future.

'Poorer' also tend to stick with the same party, a party they defied this time out.

[BerwickMad]

Ken what you're saying, Gran, but here's how I'm seeing it at the moment with a glass half empty. (another cliché)

If I vote Labour, I get a Tory government.

If I vote SNP, I get a Tory government.

if I vote Lib/Dem, I get a Tory government.

If I vote UKIP, I get a Tory government.

if I vote Green, I get a Tory government.

If I vote SSP, I get a Tory government.

if I vote Tory, I get a Tory government.

You've always the chance of getting the government you don't vote for anyway. The Tories haven't won a general election outright since 1992. It's only the betrayal of the Liberals who have lumbered one on us at the moment.

[Hillonearth]

It kind of also was the manner of the defeat - it was like one of those games when you've been hammered for 90 minutes, and lost 1-0.

At no point last night did it ever look like a win for Yes - from the announcement of you YouGuv poll about half-ten/eleven it seemed inevitable that it would be a win for no.

In this respect, the electoral coverage is kind of spoiling the election as an event, not that that really matters, of course.

This It would have been easier to handle if it had been a Brazil v Germany type defeat. This was more Switzerland v Argentina, an extra time shitfest that possibly raised more questions than it answered.

[Bookies Love Me]

You've always the chance of getting the government you don't vote for anyway. The Tories haven't won a general election outright since 1992. It's only the betrayal of the Liberals who have lumbered one on us at the moment.

Couldn't agree more. I've never voted Labour and was stuck with b*stards for long enough.

People seem to forget it's a coalition in Westminster.

[paranoid android]

You've always the chance of getting the government you don't vote for anyway. The Tories haven't won a general election outright since 1992. It's only the betrayal of the Liberals who have lumbered one on us at the moment.

Clearly.

Thing is, I thought Scotland was a country made up of Scottish people.

I was wrong - Scotland is a British region made up of British people.

[H_B]

Clearly.

Thing is, I thought Scotland was a country made up of Scottish people.

I was wrong - Scotland is a British region made up of British people.

It's actually just a geographical entity made up of people people.