DAFC Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Vikington has it right. This is a fight between America and OPEC. Independent or not we would have little control, other than definitely being America's bitch by staying part of the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 OK - what % of the SNP's revenue flow in say the first 5 years of independence was from Oil related taxes and employment? And where was the residual % going to come from? It is amazing how obsessed no voters are with the referendum SNP still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 $59.27 a barrel. Oh dear. Has any nationalist clown even attempted to work out just how big a fucking the Scottish economy would be taking right now? Or are they still trotting out the utterly laughable "oil is a bonus" line that the SNP fed them during their economically illiterate referendum campaign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 $59.27 a barrel. Oh dear. Has any nationalist clown even attempted to work out just how big a fucking the Scottish economy would be taking right now? Or are they still trotting out the utterly laughable "oil is a bonus" line that the SNP fed them during their economically illiterate referendum campaign? What about fracking mate? They're still producing oil mate. Lets see if they frack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Serious question - if fracking becomes uneconomic at $60 a barrel, what's to stop OPEC regulating production to try and maintain a price of around $70 a barrel long term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 What about fracking mate? They're still producing oil mate. Lets see if they frack... who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 But wasn't the case for independence based on predictions? Or can we just gloss over that now? And the fact that the price is what it is, and if we were independent right now we would be 'royally f**ked' on the financial front. Good try............next The case for independence is that without oil Scotland's economy is broadly similar to the UK's, oil was/is the cherry on top. We should be able to spend Scotland's money the way we want to, not the way Westminster wants to Furthermore, you have a cheek to accuse "nationalists" of being short-sighted when you're basing your argument on the short-term price of oil. The case you're making for independence is the Unionist case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Serious question - if fracking becomes uneconomic at $60 a barrel, what's to stop OPEC regulating production to try and maintain a price of around $70 a barrel long term? It's hard to say mate. Would be a big budget cut, even for the Saudis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Serious question - if fracking becomes uneconomic at $60 a barrel, what's to stop OPEC regulating production to try and maintain a price of around $70 a barrel long term? Fracking is actually becoming cheaper as the drillers in the US get more proficient at it. The higher price will bankrupt some of them, but others will appear on the scene.Fracking is there to stay. OPEC have less ability to control the price of oil now anyway. Their influence has halved since the 80s. The Americans are exporting oil now, this has changed the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 The case for independence is that without oil Scotland's economy is broadly similar to the UK's, oil was/is the cherry on top. We should be able to spend Scotland's money the way we want to, not the way Westminster wants to Furthermore, you have a cheek to accuse "nationalists" of being short-sighted when you're basing your argument on the short-term price of oil. The case you're making for independence is the Unionist case. Can you tell us what damage the low oil price will do to the Scottish economy if we had gone independent? Thanks. Or are you sill running with the utter nonsense fed to you by the SNP? Oh dear. Yep. You are an utter fanny with a cherry on the top. Oil is (according the SNP figures) 11% of Scottish GDP. To claim that this is the cherry on the top is the sort of economic illiteracy that lost you clowns your referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Fracking is actually becoming cheaper as the drillers in the US get more proficient at it. The higher price will bankrupt some of them, but others will appear on the scene.Fracking is there to stay. OPEC have less ability to control the price of oil now anyway. Their influence has halved since the 80s. The Americans are exporting oil now, this has changed the game. Fracking at all costs. You're talking so much shite mate. US imports oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Yep. You are an utter fanny with a cherry on the top. Oil is (according the SNP figures) 11% of Scottish GDP. To claim that this is the cherry on the top is the sort of economic illiteracy that lost you clowns your referendum. Does it really. Or how rich we'd be with it? This is fucking dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Even with the aspirational oil figure, I think iScot was still to run at a significant deficit - so no real cherry on top of anything. Is there any other part of the economy we could just isolate and call a cherry ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Well, an independent nation would set up a sovereign fund to cover the fluctuations in oil prices. However if oil prices were at a low level before this fund could be set up, no doubt they'd use their new powers to set policy by putting in place all kinds of short term tax reliefs to keep the industry on its feet and investment coming in. Something the current Scottish government cannot do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I'm sure you will manage to.................... The director of Premier Oil says no new North Sea projects are profitable with oil below $60 a barrel and the industry is "close to collapse". This is after many contractors have been 'asked' to take their second pay cut in a few months. Discuss the impact on a seperate Scotland's tax revenues and spending plans. Or doesn't this matter? Isn't the answer: borrow more money until the oil price rises? That seems to be the approach taken by Westminster. We could always just start our own bank and print the stuff like it's going out of fashion. That's popular too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Well, an independent nation would set up a sovereign fund to cover the fluctuations in oil prices. However if oil prices were at a low level before this fund could be set up, no doubt they'd use their new powers to set policy by putting in place all kinds of short term tax reliefs to keep the industry on its feet and investment coming in. Something the current Scottish government cannot do. A sovereign fund ultimately financed by borrowing as he country would have a deficit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 A sovereign fund ultimately financed by borrowing as he country would have a deficit? Not a huge deal so long as the deficit gets paid down and into surplus over an acceptable period of time. In any event having a sovereign fund is a general solution, but the specific one to this set of circumstances - the assumption that Scotland woud be independent, oil prices plummeting and no time to set up such a fund, then I think the only thing they can do is lower the cost of working the north sea fields as much as possible through a series of tax reliefs and ride it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Not a huge deal so long as the deficit gets paid down and into surplus over an acceptable period of time And how's that going to happen? Higher taxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweeperDee Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 And how's that going to happen? Higher taxes? What's wrong with higher taxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 What's wrong with higher taxes? Where did I say there was something wrong with higher taxes? Specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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